[Complete] 48245 and 92586

[Max Martin Richter]

Hej,
for building the Pet-Shop (10218-1) i need the mentioned parts.
The Dog is available in LDD but I'm not good enough to convert it into a good .dat file. Of course I could start with the basics there but the we have another file on the PT which isn't perfect enough.

The bucket is missing in LDD, so I hope that somebody have this part. Otherwise I will buy it with my next Bricklink-Order and try to do it by myself.

Thanks
Martin

[Stan Isachenko]

Dog is on PT

[Max Martin Richter]

Hej Stan,
thank you very much. I will have closer look into the file on the evening. Maybe there are simplifications, that could be done.

/Max

[Philippe Hurbain]

OK, you're faster
I prepared it too, but not completely ready yet... If you permit I'll submit my version since it's subparted for paterning. Also changed orientation to match other dog/wolf.

[Stan Isachenko]

ok. submit your version)

[Philippe Hurbain]

Done...

[Philippe Hurbain]

The bucket is missing in LDD, so I hope that somebody have this part.

I think that LDD part 70973 is the same as 48245 (70973 is the special design number for the chromed version)

[Max Martin Richter]

Good to know. So I will generate this part by myself. Thanks a lot.
Update: Part is extracted. I will clean it up, when I have the time for it. (2 or 3 days)

/Martin

[Max Martin Richter]

Hej,
I tried my best, but now I need help from an author with more skills like me.
Here is all, what I could do for the moment. I tried edger2 for the edges and condlines, but it didn't get the edges on the right place ;-)

/Max

[Philippe Hurbain]

Hi Max,
Do you have a good reason to use hires primitives? IMHO it's a waste of resources at this scale: LDD part doesn't look that bad, and it's only 12-sided! That would also allow to use a torus primitive for top rim...

[Max Martin Richter]

No, there wasn't a special reason for this.
I can do a 16 sided version. This should be hopefully done tomorrow.
I think, you must help me with the torus. I have no idea how to use it. Or more exactly which one is the right one.
And I think I found the reason for the different part number. Imho 48245 is only the bucket and 70973 is the bucket with handle shortcut but I'm not sure here.

/Max

[Michael Heidemann]

For the numbers please see:
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=48245
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=71861
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=70973c01
and also interesting because it has the same handle:
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=30109c01

[Philippe Hurbain]

I think, you must help me with the torus. I have no idea how to use it. Or more exactly which one is the right one.

Yes, I'll have a look!

And I think I found the reason for the different part number. Imho 48245 is only the bucket and 70973 is the bucket with handle shortcut but I'm not sure here.

Definitely no. 70973 is the chromed bucket without handle. Chromed handle seems to be 23293. AFAIK there is no design number for assembly (no need for it as bucket and handle are not pre-assembled)

[Philippe Hurbain]

I think, you must help me with the torus. I have no idea how to use it. Or more exactly which one is the right one.

More on tori calculations...
From LDD part, I measure (for top rim) an internal radius of 32.4 ldu and external radius of 36.1. The major radius is thus (32.4+36.1)/2 = 34.25, and the minor radius is (36.1-32.4)/2 = 1.85. The ratio is thus 1.85/34.25 = 0.054. We are thus looking for tori whose name end in 0540. Since this value is not critical at all, we'll choose an existing approaching torus. I'll go with t01o0625 and t01i0625 (ratio=1/16). These tori must be scaled in all directions by major radius, 34.25. Thus internal diameter will be 34.25(1-1/16)= 32.109375 and external will be 36.390625.
Other values (cones, etc...) needs to be derived from these numbers...
I hope I am reasonably clear...

[Max Martin Richter]

Thank you very much. I have read the hints for the tori-primitives more than twice and did a bit like try and error in LDDP without any useful results.
But now the use is clear to me.
Ok another problem: how do you see a radii with 32 and 36? My LDD part is only something in the 24 and 26 wide.
I'll try by myself to get a good with these dimensions.

/Max

[Philippe Hurbain]

Ok another problem: how do you see a radii with 32 and 36? My LDD part is only something in the 24 and 26 wide.

Oops, sorry! LDD part is not centered, I didn't pay attention to this!!!

[Max Martin Richter]

Here is the bucket (without the handle connectors) just for checking it against errors.
I have found some very very small gaps where the tori meets the cones. So I tried to set the scaling factor of the tori to another value...but then I must use 5 different tori to cover the area where it is actually done with one cone.
(Scalling factor 24.5007 for the tori)
Don't know what to do here.

/Max

[Philippe Hurbain]

Could you also attach the new primitives (saves time/make sure for everything...)

[Max Martin Richter]

Of course. Here they are:

/Max

[Philippe Hurbain]

Thanks! I only see gap from below where t01o1250 meets cone. There you can simply use a thin ring that slightly enter the cone to fill the gap (high diameter ring scaled down).

Otherwise you'll have to run Edger2 with expand subfile option to create additional condlines where top torus meets outer top cone. Maybe also add condlines where cone meets cylinder at bottom, but here it can be questionned as the slight break effet is rather nice (and condlines are not mandatory since it's a concave junction).

[Max Martin Richter]

There is a gap between the inner torus (t01i0714.dat) and the 4-4con12.dat. Torus is 22.7514 wide and the cone 22.75 LDU. (Could be seen, if primitive is inlined.
I'll fix the other gap in the mean time. and run edger2 before I start the holes for the handle.

[Philippe Hurbain]

to create additional condlines where top torus meets outer top cone

My bad, it's between green cylinder ans outer red cone.

Torus is 22.7514 wide and the cone 22.75 LDU

I don't understand - why don't you set torus radius at 24.5 instead of 24.5007??? Then fit would be perfect!

[Max Martin Richter]

The funny thing is, if I set the the torus to 24.5 then the inside would fit perfect and i would have the same problem on the outside.

[Philippe Hurbain]

Adjust the ouside cyli/cone/other torus that don't perfectly match anyway...???

[Max Martin Richter]

What a long thread...
I had both top tori with 24.5 with this setting the inner radius of the inner torus was correct and the outside radius of the outside one was 26.2486 (or something like this) instead of 26.25.
With setting the scaling to 24.5007 the problem is moving from the outside to the inside...

[Philippe Hurbain]

What a long thread...

Yup
Actually this is a direct result of rounding in primitives!
The most outer point of the torus lies at x=1+1/14=1.0714285714285714285714285714286 but primitives are rounded to 4dp so you get 1.0714. Once scaled by 24.5, the error is -0.0007. So you get 26.2493 instead of 26.25. But this error is less than 1/1000 ldu, completely invisible. And even smooth shading in LDview accounts for some rounding errors between polygon vertices and condlines endpoints. That's also the reason why in Edger2 has a "precision" option to allow some discrepancy between matching coordinates. This precision defaults to 0.001, but it may be changed if necessary.

[Max Martin Richter]

Ok, I will set the torus to 24.5 and build the rest of the bucket. Not watching the "gap".
I think, I have the German problem to be too exactly ;-)
Thanks for your help.