Patterns and color 16

[Travis Cobbs]

I think the topic Chris raised about using color 16 in patterns where it makes the pattern useless for any other brick colors than the original one has had enough feedback from the general populous that we should now decide if the spec should be updated.

My personal opinion is that in cases like the fire logo, where it's clear that a specific color is required, that color should be used in the pattern file. And in cases like the gauge where it's ambiguous, color 16 should be used. Perhaps disagreements over whether or not something is ambiguous could be resolved by the part admin.

Thoughts, everyone else?

[Roland Melkert]

I agree the color 16 should be used only for 'clear' parts of sticker/patterns (pretty much the intend of color 16).

For example the red in fire isn't clear so it's hard coded.
The 'grey' in the gauge slope is clear because the red circle line is a border (imho).

This opinion is based on the two given examples though, are there some more examples of real problem patterns?

[Willy Tschager]

This opinion is based on the two given examples though, are there some more examples of real problem patterns?

There are! Color 3846p01 - Minifig Shield Triangular with Red Cross and Helmet Pattern with black and your going to loose most of the detail 'cos of the black border.

IMHO all colors of a pattern should be hardcoded.

But before we dive deeper into the issue lets first rule over:

http://forums.ldraw.org/showthread.php?t...96#pid1996

w.

[Roland Melkert]

Ah, I can see the problem with this part indeed. In gray it looks ok but in any other color it seems wrong to me. The knights helmet probably should be hardcoded gray (maybe even the whole 'torso shape' it's mounted on should be hc gray).

The black lines disappearing when used in black is a problem all non 100% c16 parts have, so I don't think you could 'burden' the part authors with making all patterns hardcoded (inflating filecount dramatically).

Maybe we should only specify a set of rules on how to determine what part of a pattern is declared 'transparent', e.g.

1. Compare different colored real life parts. (the current way I'm guessing)
2. If there are non, take a 'vote' on this in the pt; or let the pt admin decide; or wait for TLG to come up with a 2nd colored part.

Or if the clear section is really ambiguous, release a hardcoded (temporary) part and replace it in a next release with a 'moved to'. This is the backwards compatible way of doing things, but it would clutter the library though. And personally I'm not a big fan of 'coloured' parts in general.

[Chris Dee]

I have posted a decision on the Fire Logo in the original thread.

[Willy Tschager]

I'd like to change the current specs at:

http://www.ldraw.org/Article339.html

For transparent stickers, the transparent portion should be modeled using color 16, so that the sticker can be attached to any color parts and still blend in. Unfortunately, if it is attached over a multi-colored region, it won't blend in, but there isn't really a good solution to that problem.

Except with transparent stickers, the sticker pattern is modeled by real colors. They are not modifiable from the outside, and so the use of color numbers 16 and 24 is not allowed. Color 16 is allowed for transparent stickers, as noted above, but color 24 is not.

The sticker pattern is modeled by real colors, they are not modifiable from the outside, and so the use of color numbers 16 and 24 is not allowed.

to

The sticker pattern is modeled by real colors, they are not modifiable from the outside, and so the use of color numbers 16 and 24 is not allowed. All printed colors of the pattern have to be matched. Mimicking a color by blending in the background color of the part underneath is not allowed.

For the event the pattern contains a transparent portion it should be modeled using color 16, so that the sticker can be attached to any color parts and still blend in.

Thoughts?

w.

[Roland Melkert]

I think this is ok, leaving the decision on what is transparent to the authors.

[Travis Cobbs]

I'll vote for it if it gets put to a vote, but to be honest, I don't think either version is very good. The problem with the new text is that the second paragraph directly contradicts the first paragraph. However, I'm at a loss for good wording in the first paragraph that would remove this contradiction.

[Willy Tschager]

Good point. Next try:

The sticker pattern is modeled by real colors, they are not modifiable from the outside. All printed colors of the pattern have to be matched. Mimicking a color by blending in the background color of the part underneath using color 16 is not allowed. Color 16 is exclusively allowed for a transparent portion of the pattern, so that the sticker can be attached to any color parts and still blend in. Since edges are forbidden in sticker parts color 24 is not allowed.

The last sentence has been reworded to answer this:

http://forums.ldraw.org/showthread.php?t...90#pid3290

edge lines - yes or no? The files I looked at didn't seem to have them. I used edged primitives for the sides,
as I think edges add detail if when ambient lighting or flat shading is used.

w.

[Travis Cobbs]

I'm good with that, with some very minor native-English-speaker modifications:

The sticker pattern is modeled by real colors; they are not modifiable from the outside. All printed colors of the pattern must be matched. Mimicking a color by blending in the background color of the part underneath using color 16 is not allowed. Color 16 is exclusively allowed for a transparent portion of the pattern, so that the sticker can be attached to any color parts and still blend in. Since edges are forbidden in sticker parts, color 24 is not allowed.

One more thing: I think the specs are supposed to be in Australian English, so all instances of "color" should be "colour", both in the above text, and in the rest of the document.

[Tim Gould]

To provide a little Australian input here 'modeled' should be 'modelled' too. We use British spelling for that one.

Tim

[Chris Dee]

Agree - colour rather than color, modelled rather than modeled.