New Parts for LGEO Library

[Michael Horvath]

Just a heads up: the sub-surface scattering feature of UberPOV requires nearly all materials to have an ior. I'm not sure what the proper values are for metal, pearl, rubber, etc. though.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hallo together,

I read the hole post and are quite interessted in Lego brick rendering. First of all I'd like to thank you for the work to provide the high quality parts for rendering.
I tried to do the setup like described in the first post, but I'm not quite sure if I did it right. Since I'm not very familiar with PovRay I have the question about the following step in the introduction:

You may want to put the lg_xxxx.inc files in your usual LGEO directory and the xxxx.inc files in another folder (don't forget to declare it in PovRay or it will not find the requested files)

I did the first step and created a directory called "parts" in my LGEO directory and copied all xxxx.inc files there. What I'm missing is the last part. How to I tell PovRay to look for the files in that location?

I tried to render a part without adding the directory somewhere and I got a rendered brick, but where is the difference if I add the directory? Do the bricks look different?

Best Regards

Sven

[Damien Roux]

I suggested to create a new folder to avoid messing up everything as what I provide is still WIP. But if you copy all my files in your LGEO directory it will produce the same result.

You can tell PovRay to use other directory by editing the povray.ini file.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

thank you very much. This was easy.

By the way: Currently I load the .ldr files in LDView, zoom to fit "ctrl+f" and export the povray file. Is there a more easy way to "convert" a ldr file to a povray file? As far as I know there is no way to script LDView to do this. Currently I use a python script which starts LDView, sends the keys and closes LDView again. It would be very cool, if someone knows a nicer way.

Best Regards

Sven

[Damien Roux]

With ldview there is no other way at the time.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

I'm not bound to LDview. I just picked it as a first approach, since it works somehow. Is there another way known without LDview?

Best Regards

Sven

[Damien Roux]

Maybe L3P but it's kinda outdated

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Ok thank you. Then I think I'll stick with LDView for now.

[Jonas Hall]

Awesome work!!!

I would like to request a part for any coming update (if there's going to be any).

It is part "4867 Tail Plane" (see link http://brickset.com/parts/4188568)

I can't seem to find it anywhere, so chances are that it doesn't exist as an include file for the LGEO library yet.

[Damien Roux]

Update: 2015/11/12



973p2d - Minifig Torso with Windsurfboard Pattern
973p64 - Minifig Torso with Spyrius Pattern
2362b - Panel 1 x 2 x 3 with Hollow Studs
2446p51 - Minifig Helmet Modern with Black, Blue and Silver Unitron Pattern
2739a - Technic Steering Link 6L Type 1
2852 - Technic Engine Connecting Rod
3068bp0d - Tile 2 x 2 with Black Dot and White "E" on Red Disc Pattern
3068bpc1 - Tile 2 x 2 with Yellow Horizontal Stripes and "SOLAR CHARGE LEVEL" Pattern
3626bp03 - Minifig Head with Standard Grin Pattern
3626bp68 - Minifig Head with Silver Sunglasses and Red Headset Pattern
3678 - Slope Brick 65 2 x 2 x 2 without Centre Tube
3678a - Slope Brick 65 2 x 2 x 2 without Centre Tube
3678b - Slope Brick 65 2 x 2 x 2 with Centre Tube
3857 - Baseplate 16 x 32 with Square Corners
4162p0z - Tile 1 x 8 with "Louvre" Pattern
4507 - Hinge Plate 1 x 6 with 2 and 3 Fingers On Sides
4515 - Slope Brick 10 6 x 8
4864ap04 - Panel 1 x 2 x 2 with Palm Tree Pattern
6041 - Propellor 3 Blades 3.5 Diameter
6075 - Minifig Surf Board 2 x 10
6083 - Panel 3 x 8 x 7 Rock Triangular
6255 - Plant 1 x 1 x 0.667 Round with 3 Large Leaves
14719 - Tile 2 x 2 Corner
15712 - Tile 1 x 1 with Clip (Thick C-Clip)
30162 - Minifig Tool Binoculars Town
30375 - Minifig Mechanical Torso
32005 - Technic Steering Link 6L Type 2
32187 - Technic Transmission Driving Ring Extension
32250 - Technic Beam 3 x 5 x 0.5 Liftarm Bent 90 Quarter Ellipse
32529 - Technic Pin Joiner Plate 1 x 2 x 1 & 1/2
41763 - Slope Brick Curved 6 x 1 Inverted
41764 - Wedge 2 x 6 Double Inverted Right
41765 - Wedge 2 x 6 Double Inverted Left
42023 - Slope Brick Curved 6 x 1 Inverted
45590 - Technic Axle Joiner Double Flexible
47455 - Technic Brick 2 x 2 with Hole, Half Rotation Joint Ball Vert
47457 - Slope Brick Curved 2 x 2 x 2/3 Triple with Two Top Studs

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

thank you very much for the great work. I just added the updated parts to my Queue of rendering the whole library.

[Damien Roux]

If you are rendering everything, do not hesitate to tell me if you find some errors.

Can I ask why are you rendering the whole library?

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

I think I already found some parts which look not that nice if they are rendered in high resulution, but maybe these are not from you. I can share the information after I did some review of the results.

I'm rendering them, because I'd like to start a webpage where I want to use them. There are some pages around, but I don't like the rendered image that much. First of all I just want to start with searching the bricks. Maybe I'll add sets with part lists later on. I currently don't know where this is going, but I like high quality brick images . The community and especially you will be added to credits if it ever will go online if you like.
I attached two files to show a current result. I really like the first one, with the reflections of the tyre holders.
The second one is an example for a brick with some kind of problem on the outside. The round stud thingi is somehow flat on one side.

[Magnus Forsberg]

The flat surfaces are real and very intentional. The real part looks like that.

But, this is also a very good example of how simplified designs are missing a lot of details when rendered in hi-res.
The real part doesn't look anything like this, at all. Many details are missing.
It should have a groove, like a Tile, around the base.
The use of a half-sphere-primitive is a bad choise here.
Edge lines are missing.
The sloping cylinders below the studs don't fit the studs.


  2654.png (Size: 26.81 KB / Downloads: 657)
Please have a look at this part image from Brickset/TLG.

[Damien Roux]

Both parts come from my package.

Regarding the Dish: I'm modelling my HQ parts using ldraw designs. As long as the ldraw part is like that, my LGEO equivalent will be like that.
Maybe it's a part that could be reworked on the tracker.

You can redownload my package, I've reworked the part's nomals, you shouldn't have the barely visible artifacts you have on you're picture.

[Damien Roux]

Update: 2015/11/13



2552p01 - Baseplate 32 x 32 Raised with Ramp and Pit with Ice Pattern

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Oh ok you're right. I didn't know that. I doesn't have such a piece right here now.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Thank you for the new piece. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find it in my LDraw directory. I Only have 2552 / 2552p05 / 2552p06.
Do you have any idea why this could be the case?

[Damien Roux]

This part has been release recently. You need to update you ldraw library with the most recent package you will find at ldraw.org

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Thank you. I tried the updated part, but I don't see a big difference. Maybe I did something wrong during replacement of the part.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

I've been pretty sure I did that already, but after another update the part is available. Thank you for the hint.

[Damien Roux]

Have you replaced both 2654.inc and lg_2654.inc?

I haven't changed the geometry, only the normals.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

I redownloaded the whole package and replaced all files. I can also see that these files where changed on 12th November 11:30 pm. I think this is the date of change from you. I attached the 2654.inc file. Maybe you can check if this is the latest one.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi folks,

I've discored a problem during rendering of part 3626c. PovRay is searching for the define lg_tech_knob_join in the lg_macro.inc file. Unfortunately it cannot be found. Any idea how this define should look like and where it belongs?

So long

Sven

[Damien Roux]

You should fin it in the Ldraw AIOI.

I not, I've attached it here.

[Johannes Schauer]

Therefore the .lst files are no longer used (by most of the userd), that's why I don't provide them in my package. It has been kind of replaced by the lg_colors.inc and LGEO.xml files.

Currently, the complete LGEO library can be found in the Ldraw AIOI. My parts are not yet part of this AIOI, so you need to install them manually or wait for them to be integrated to the AIOI.

It seems that lg_colors.ls and lg_elements.lst are not shipped with the current AIOI.

Unfortunately leocad needs both of these files to export pov files.

Could you restore them in your next release?

Thanks!

[Damien Roux]

I might be mistaken but the .lst files are no longer needed as the current AIOI is promoting ldview as a PovRay file exporter.

You can still use LEOCAD as your model builder, but you should use ldview to generate the PovFile. I don't have those files anymore.

[Johannes Schauer]

I might be mistaken but the .lst files are no longer needed as the current AIOI is promoting ldview as a PovRay file exporter.

As far as I can see from http://ldview.sourceforge.net/ LDView has been unmaintained for six years.

In contrast to that Leocad is actively developed my multiple contributors for more than 15 years, there are about 3 to 5 releases per year with 4 releases this year only, it is part of the repositories of multiple Linux distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, Arch Linux) and just as LDView is cross platform for Windows and MacOS as well.

Is there a reason that lg_colors.ls and lg_elements.lst are not distributed anymore? Is it too much work to keep them up to date? Were they broken and nobody found time to fix them? Those two files are tiny so I doubt that it was their size that got them removed.

I find it odd that the AIOI dropped files that disabled povray export of a widely used and maintained piece of software just because another abandoned and unmaintained piece of software does not require them.

Why not just keep those two files so to not sabotage another piece of software?

I find it even more important to include these files because I fail to find them anywhere else on the internet. Pointers welcome.

[Damien Roux]

I've found the files on my computer (attached in this post but you will need to change the .txt to .lst).

But, I'm 100% sure they are not up to date and are not the same as they where released with the first LGEO library (I have surely modified them for my own pupose).

So you can start from them to update them.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

thank you, but this is the exact same lg_macro.inc file I have. Also with this one I get the following error in pov ray:

Expected 'object', undeclared identifier 'lg_tech_knob_join' found instead

in line 674.

So long

Sven

[Johannes Schauer]

But, I'm 100% sure they are not up to date and are not the same as they where released with the first LGEO library (I have surely modified them for my own pupose).

Many thanks. A rendering using Leocad and this file looked fine to my eyes. Could you include that file in your next release? I'm sure if there are problems with it, people will submit their fixes.

Thanks!

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

I found a guy who might need some love on the normals. Can you help on that?
Please see the attached image.

So long,

Sven

[Damien Roux]

Update: 2015/11/28



4289 - Boat Mast 2 x 2
4867 - Tail Plane
47755 - Wedge 4 x 3 Curved with 2 x 2 Cutout
48171 - Technic Brick 2 x 2 with Hole, Half Rotation Joint Ball Vert
48729 - Bar 1.5L with Clip
57518 - Technic Chain Tread 38
57520 - Technic Sprocket Wheel 25.4
59230 - Minifig Mechanical Arm Straight
60470 - Plate 1 x 2 with Clips Horizontal (Open U-Clips)
60470a - Plate 1 x 2 with Clips Horizontal (Open U-Clips)
60470b - Plate 1 x 2 with Clips Horizontal (Thick C-Clips)
60592 - Window 1 x 2 x 2 without Sill
60601 - Glass for Window 1 x 2 x 2 without Sill
62712 - Brick 2 x 2 with Ball Socket and Axlehole
64276 - Technic Beam 2 Liftarm with Ball Joint
87079 - Tile 2 x 4 with Groove
87079p08 - Tile 2 x 4 with Black "WALL" Pattern
90195 - Panel 1 x 2 x 2 Hollow Stud with Arched Windows Opening
92013 - Brick 2 x 2 with Ball Socket and Axlehole
98282 - Car Mudguard 4 x 2.5 x 1
98286 - Hinge Plate 2 x 4.5 Top with Technic Pin Hole
99021 - Technic Pneumatic Hose Connector with Bush
u66 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular
u66c01 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular (Formed Shape 1)
u66c01 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular (Formed Shape 2)
u66p01 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular with Blue and Red Triangles and Blue Lines Pattern
u66p01c01 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular with Blue and Red Triangles and Blue Lines Pattern (Formed Shape 1)
u66p01c02 - Sheet Plastic 6 x 12 Triangular with Blue and Red Triangles and Blue Lines Pattern (Formed Shape 2)
u151 - Rubber Belt Square 15 / 1.2

[Damien Roux]

Strange you got those faces.
I tried to render that part and it was completely smooth for me.

I've updated the normals anyway, you can redownload the package

[Damien Roux]

I wrote on my first post in this topic :

you can use my own lg_defs.inc provided in the package (but it might conflict with Owen's one on some parts)

This is exactely what happened here.


2 solutions here :
- you get AIOI's lg_defs.inc file and you manually add the two lines for matrix transformation (see my first post)
- you wait until I make my library 100% complient with Owen's part.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

And again thank you for the new parts. Some of them I've already rendered, but the new versions have better quality. So I'm gonna render them again.

So Long

Sven

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Have tried rendering the part with some area lights? Without are lights it looks almost smooth.

There are some parts in the library where I've seen similar issues. I suggest, that I collect them and provide a list after I rendered all parts for the first time.
I also have seen some parts where I think that something with the bounding box is not right and therefor calculating full view (ctrl+f) in LDview does not work. I can also add them to the overview if you like.

Best Regards

Sven

[Philippe Hurbain]

Maybe it would be time to start another thread? this one is a nightmare to follow because of all the images... (and deep indentation level!)

[Damien Roux]

I was planning to start a new topic when my parts would be released with the AIOI. As it takes more timw than expected, I will creaze a new one for next parts release.

[Damien Roux]

Did the updated 4589 part still give normals problems?
Could you send me a pov files where you get those facetization?

And yes, if you have a list of parts giving problems, It would be perfect.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

I did a review of my first rendering batch and found some parts which might need some adjustments. Since the review will take a while and we have to find a suitable process let's see if the data I can provide will help. Please let me know if you need more information.

So Long

Sven

[Damien Roux]

Hi,

I took a look and only 2342 and 2343 have LGEO equivalent.

So, for all the other parts, it's normal you uavr sharp edges because it is raw Ldraw geometry.

The two others are parts from the original LGEO library, so a bit less quality than mine. But the studs are OK as for me.

What I am interested in is review of my parts mainly. But what you provided is OK as a review standard.

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi,

so if I got you right you won't provide high quality models for parts which are not available in LGEO. That's fine, but good to know. Than I'll treat them as final. Will there be updates for the two other parts somewhen in the future? If yes I will just wait for updates and I'll provide every now and them further reviews. It's perfectly fine if you only provide new packages if it makes sense for you. I have enaugh to render anyway .

So long

Sven

[Damien Roux]

No, I did not meant that.

I'm actually providing HQ parts for parts that are not in LGEO library.

But actually, any parts not in LGEO library will give you sharp edges somewhere. This is why you have sharp studs here.


As there are a lot of parts, I'm creating only the ones I need for my renders. But you can make requests of course (as long as you don't request the entire library... ) Just give me a list, and I will do my best.

What I am interested in is to know if my own LGEO parts give problems. None of the ones you pointed out above have been made by me.
Only the 4589 part which gives you facets has been made by me, that's why I've asked if it still gives problems. Could you please answer me on that?

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Ok, got it.

Then I keep going with reviews and you can decide which one of the parts you gonna rework or provide as new HQ parts. Maybe there is some point in time where we can have all parts in HQ but I'll take what is available until then.

I attached the 4589 with a fresh exported pov file. If you can try to render the pov file we maybe can find out if something with my config is wrong.

So long

Sven

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Some more parts from review. I think most of them are not yours. Maybe the helmet?

So long

Sven

[Damien Roux]

The problem comes with your area lights.

I don't pretend to know everything with PovRay but this is what I think:

Apparently your light sources are too much close to the part. Area lights shouldn't be used exactely as conventional point lights.
Looks like the area lights are located inside the part, therefore the mesh is illuminated from the inside and the normals cannot do their job.

This is what I get with your settings:

Here there are facets, like the normals of the mesh are not taken into account. The shadows inside the part are also very grainy.


I would put the light much far away from the part:
Using a *1000 factor:

light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 45,0,LDXRadius*2
(<0*LDXRadius,-1.5*LDXRadius,-1.5*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.85
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 30,120,LDXRadius*2
(<1.5*LDXRadius,-1*LDXRadius,0.866026*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.85
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 60,-120,LDXRadius*2
(<0,-2*LDXRadius,0> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Custom light 2: Side
(<2*LDXRadius,-0*LDXRadius,-2*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}

This is what I get:

No more facets, but too bright.


I can decrease the brightness by changing the lights colors:
using a 1/1.5 factor for the rgb colors:

light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 45,0,LDXRadius*2
(<0*LDXRadius,-1.5*LDXRadius,-1.5*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.85/1.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 30,120,LDXRadius*2
(<1.5*LDXRadius,-1*LDXRadius,0.866026*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.85/1.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Latitude,Longitude: 60,-120,LDXRadius*2
(<0,-2*LDXRadius,0> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.5/1.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}
light_source { // Custom light 2: Side
(<2*LDXRadius,-0*LDXRadius,-2*LDXRadius> + LDXCenter)*1000
color rgb 0.5/1.5
area_light 200, 200, 10, 10
jitter
}

This is what I get:



Finally, I don't like those kind of render because it is really dark inside the part (of course because there is no light in it).
I would turn on radiosity.



For more realism, I would add some reflections and a floor, and this is what I get with the settings I use for my renders:

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Hi Damien,

thank you very much. Your theory with the normals makes perfectly sence. I didn't think about that.
Did you use different light sources for the last render? It looks like you used bigger area lights and they are positioned different.

So long

Sven

[Sven v. Beuningen]

Ok, forget about the helmet. It is the same issue with the area lights. Looks great now.

So Long

Sven

[Damien Roux]

I used only one area light, a bit smaller than yours.
But the main difference is the use of radiosity.