LDraw data files at Brickset
2014-10-31, 21:22 (This post was last modified: 2014-12-16, 8:46 by Nicola.)
2014-10-31, 21:22 (This post was last modified: 2014-12-16, 8:46 by Nicola.)
LDraw data files at Brickset
It's me who's uploading the LDraw models to Brickset.
At the moment, I'm uploading my own models and models from a few top authors at the EuroBricks LDraw sets topic (with their permission).
I really considered making all LDraw models OMR, but I decided not to do that (yet). Simply because I don't have the time to modify all the headers. And, because according to the OMR standard (as far as I know), if the set is only 1 thing (for example, only 1 plane), it should be a .ldr and not a .mpd with submodels. However, a lot of the models are made with a bunch of submodels (for example a submodel for the tail, a submodel for the door etc. etc.). It's not OMR, but in my opinion it would be a waste if only I wouldn't share the file, just because it's not completely OMR.
And, another thing is that, in this case user C3POwen, is doing the same thing as above (a bunch of submodels), but with a reason: he has made special rotation points, so that you can easily open up a door, or move an arm, just by rotating the submodel. You should download one of his models to see what I mean.
Or am I misinterpreting the OMR?
Anyway, if you have any questions or comments (either positive or negative), feel free to post them here
At the moment, I'm uploading my own models and models from a few top authors at the EuroBricks LDraw sets topic (with their permission).
I really considered making all LDraw models OMR, but I decided not to do that (yet). Simply because I don't have the time to modify all the headers. And, because according to the OMR standard (as far as I know), if the set is only 1 thing (for example, only 1 plane), it should be a .ldr and not a .mpd with submodels. However, a lot of the models are made with a bunch of submodels (for example a submodel for the tail, a submodel for the door etc. etc.). It's not OMR, but in my opinion it would be a waste if only I wouldn't share the file, just because it's not completely OMR.
And, another thing is that, in this case user C3POwen, is doing the same thing as above (a bunch of submodels), but with a reason: he has made special rotation points, so that you can easily open up a door, or move an arm, just by rotating the submodel. You should download one of his models to see what I mean.
Or am I misinterpreting the OMR?
Anyway, if you have any questions or comments (either positive or negative), feel free to post them here
Please try the first entry (http://uploads.brickset.com/ldraw/442%20...huttle.ldr) then you know what I mean.
If you are right, then there is another problem with this file
If you are right, then there is another problem with this file
This is so awesome!
An example of how tight the LDRAW integration can be.
This has the potential to become the next "peeron":
Instead of having simple inventories, full LDRAW models of the sets are available.
Wow!
I hope that many/all of the already available official models at EuroBricks
( http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.ph...opic=48285 )
will finally make it to brickset.
Making the official models OMR-compliant would not be a priority for me.
I always found the OMR rules much too restrictive and
kind of annoyingly taking the fun and speed out of building official models...
(to be honest)
An example of how tight the LDRAW integration can be.
This has the potential to become the next "peeron":
Instead of having simple inventories, full LDRAW models of the sets are available.
Wow!
I hope that many/all of the already available official models at EuroBricks
( http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.ph...opic=48285 )
will finally make it to brickset.
Making the official models OMR-compliant would not be a priority for me.
I always found the OMR rules much too restrictive and
kind of annoyingly taking the fun and speed out of building official models...
(to be honest)
Brickset now includes a WebGL viewer to view the files.
It's very nice.
However, "Nicola80" (the author of the WebGL viewer), has some comments about the LDraw library in general:
And, after I asked what he means, he said this:
Now, I was wondering what the more advanced LDraw authors have to say about this, since I'm quite new to that stuff. The past years I was more of a user.
I would say (as a user) that modernizing the library would be very good. Are there any reasons (except the enormous workload it is and the time it would take) why that hasn't been done? More specifically, what needs to be done?
It's very nice.
However, "Nicola80" (the author of the WebGL viewer), has some comments about the LDraw library in general:
Quote:Jantjeuh indeed brigl doesn't attempt at sanitizing bad part files. There are some viewer around that does (LDView for example) but the algorithm can be quite tricky to implement, and the issue really should be adressed in the ldraw part library once and for all. Unfortunately the guys at LDraw are extremely reclutant to upgrade their ancient file format.
And, after I asked what he means, he said this:
Now, I was wondering what the more advanced LDraw authors have to say about this, since I'm quite new to that stuff. The past years I was more of a user.
I would say (as a user) that modernizing the library would be very good. Are there any reasons (except the enormous workload it is and the time it would take) why that hasn't been done? More specifically, what needs to be done?
I'm not a part author, but here's my 2cts:
Those droid legs alone have dozens of twisted quads and some non flat ones in subparts it seems.
I agree with Nicola on the should be corrected in the library point, but I don't agree on the LDraw format diss. imho it's still very efficient, we don't need to store normals as they can be calculated (assuming clean preferable bfc-ed parts etc).
There is room for improvement though, but I don't see the need to completely restart with a new format.
Those droid legs alone have dozens of twisted quads and some non flat ones in subparts it seems.
I agree with Nicola on the should be corrected in the library point, but I don't agree on the LDraw format diss. imho it's still very efficient, we don't need to store normals as they can be calculated (assuming clean preferable bfc-ed parts etc).
There is room for improvement though, but I don't see the need to completely restart with a new format.
Might actually be some kind of record
Above output might be userfull for making the corrections if anyone want to give it a go.
Code:
01474 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 67 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 8 8] [-19 8 4] [-19 0 4] [-19 2 8]".
01475 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 68 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 8 0] [-19 8 4] [-19 0 4] [-19 0 0]".
01476 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 69 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 8 8] [19 8 4] [19 0 4] [19 2 8]".
01477 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 70 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 8 0] [19 8 4] [19 0 4] [19 0 0]".
01478 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 71 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 8 0] [-19 8 8] [-16 8 8] [-16 8 0]".
01479 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 72 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 8 0] [19 8 8] [16 8 8] [16 8 0]".
01480 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 79 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 8 8] [4 8 0] [-4 8 0] [-4 8 8]".
01481 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 80 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 8 0] [-1 6 0] [1 6 0] [1 8 0]".
01482 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 81 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 6 6] [-1 6 0] [1 6 0] [1 6 6]".
01483 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 82 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 2 6] [-1 6 6] [1 6 6] [1 2 6]".
01484 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 84 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 2 8] [-16 3 8] [16 3 8] [19 2 8]".
01485 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 87 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 8 8] [4 3 8] [-4 3 8] [-4 8 8]".
01486 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 88 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 0 4] [19 2 8] [1 2 8] [1 0 4]".
01487 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 89 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 0 4] [-1 2 8] [-19 2 8] [-19 0 4]".
01488 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 90 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 0 4] [-1 0 0] [-19 0 0] [-19 0 4]".
01489 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 91 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 0 4] [19 0 0] [1 0 0] [1 0 4]".
01490 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 143 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 0 0] [18.3 0 -3.4] [1.7 0 -3.4] [1 0 0]".
01491 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 144 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[17.9 0 -4] [18.3 0 -3.4] [1.7 0 -3.4] [2.1 0 -4]".
01492 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 145 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[17.9 0 -4] [2.1 0 -4] [3.7 1.2 -6.4] [16.3 1.2 -6.4]".
01493 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 146 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[7.5 3 -10] [3.7 1.2 -6.4] [16.3 1.2 -6.4] [12.5 3 -10]".
01494 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 147 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 0 0] [-1.7 0 -3.4] [-18.3 0 -3.4] [-19 0 0]".
01495 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 148 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-2.1 0 -4] [-1.7 0 -3.4] [-18.3 0 -3.4] [-17.9 0 -4]".
01496 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 149 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-2.1 0 -4] [-17.9 0 -4] [-16.3 1.2 -6.4] [-3.7 1.2 -6.4]".
01497 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 150 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-12.5 3 -10] [-16.3 1.2 -6.4] [-3.7 1.2 -6.4] [-7.5 3 -10]".
01498 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 151 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[1 8 0] [1 0 0] [1.7 0 -3.4] [1.7 8 -3.4]".
01499 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 152 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[2.1 8 -4] [2.1 0 -4] [1.7 0 -3.4] [1.7 8 -3.4]".
01500 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 153 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[2.1 8 -4] [2.1 0 -4] [3.7 1.2 -6.4] [3.7 8 -6.4]".
01501 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 154 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[7.5 8 -10] [7.5 3 -10] [3.7 1.2 -6.4] [3.7 8 -6.4]".
01502 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 155 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[7.5 8 -10] [7.5 3 -10] [12.5 3 -10] [12.5 8 -10]".
01503 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 156 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[16.3 8 -6.4] [16.3 1.2 -6.4] [12.5 3 -10] [12.5 8 -10]".
01504 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 157 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[16.3 8 -6.4] [16.3 1.2 -6.4] [17.9 0 -4] [17.9 8 -4]".
01505 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 158 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[18.3 8 -3.4] [18.3 0 -3.4] [17.9 0 -4] [17.9 8 -4]".
01506 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 159 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[18.3 8 -3.4] [18.3 0 -3.4] [19 0 0] [19 8 0]".
01507 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 160 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 8 0] [-19 0 0] [-18.3 0 -3.4] [-18.3 8 -3.4]".
01508 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 161 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-17.9 8 -4] [-17.9 0 -4] [-18.3 0 -3.4] [-18.3 8 -3.4]".
01509 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 162 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-17.9 8 -4] [-17.9 0 -4] [-16.3 1.2 -6.4] [-16.3 8 -6.4]".
01510 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 163 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-12.5 8 -10] [-12.5 3 -10] [-16.3 1.2 -6.4] [-16.3 8 -6.4]".
01511 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 164 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-12.5 8 -10] [-12.5 3 -10] [-7.5 3 -10] [-7.5 8 -10]".
01512 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 165 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-3.7 8 -6.4] [-3.7 1.2 -6.4] [-7.5 3 -10] [-7.5 8 -10]".
01513 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 166 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-3.7 8 -6.4] [-3.7 1.2 -6.4] [-2.1 0 -4] [-2.1 8 -4]".
01514 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 167 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1.7 8 -3.4] [-1.7 0 -3.4] [-2.1 0 -4] [-2.1 8 -4]".
01515 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 168 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1.7 8 -3.4] [-1.7 0 -3.4] [-1 0 0] [-1 8 0]".
01516 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 169 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[1 8 0] [4 8 0] [4.4 8 -2.2] [1.7 8 -3.4]".
01517 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 170 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[3.7 8 -6.4] [5.8 8 -4.3] [4.4 8 -2.2] [1.7 8 -3.4]".
01518 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 172 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[10 8 -6] [10 8 -10] [7.5 8 -10] [7.7 8 -5.55]".
01519 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 173 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[19 8 0] [16 8 0] [15.6 8 -2.2] [18.3 8 -3.4]".
01520 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 174 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[16.3 8 -6.4] [14.2 8 -4.3] [15.6 8 -2.2] [18.3 8 -3.4]".
01521 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 176 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[10 8 -6] [10 8 -10] [12.5 8 -10] [12.3 8 -5.55]".
01522 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 177 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-19 8 0] [-16 8 0] [-15.6 8 -2.2] [-18.3 8 -3.4]".
01523 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 178 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-16.3 8 -6.4] [-14.2 8 -4.3] [-15.6 8 -2.2] [-18.3 8 -3.4]".
01524 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 180 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-10 8 -6] [-10 8 -10] [-12.5 8 -10] [-12.3 8 -5.55]".
01525 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 181 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-1 8 0] [-4 8 0] [-4.4 8 -2.2] [-1.7 8 -3.4]".
01526 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 182 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-3.7 8 -6.4] [-5.8 8 -4.3] [-4.4 8 -2.2] [-1.7 8 -3.4]".
01527 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 184 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-10 8 -6] [-10 8 -10] [-7.5 8 -10] [-7.7 8 -5.55]".
01528 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 255 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[9 0 -1] [9 0 4] [9 -12 5] [9 -14 0]".
01529 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 256 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[5 0 -1] [5 0 4] [5 -12 5] [5 -14 0]".
01530 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 261 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[7.5 -16 -3.4] [6.5 -16 -3.4] [5.47 -5 -1.8] [8.53 -5 -1.8]".
01531 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 262 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[9 0 -4] [5 0 -4] [5.47 -5 -1.8] [8.53 -5 -1.8]".
01532 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 263 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[9 0 4] [5 0 4] [5 -12 5] [9 -12 5]".
01533 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 264 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[9 -16 3.4] [5 -16 3.4] [5 -12 5] [9 -12 5]".
01534 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 267 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 0 -1] [-5 0 4] [-5 -12 5] [-5 -14 0]".
01535 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 268 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-9 0 -1] [-9 0 4] [-9 -12 5] [-9 -14 0]".
01536 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 273 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-6.5 -16 -3.4] [-7.5 -16 -3.4] [-8.53 -5 -1.8] [-5.47 -5 -1.8]".
01537 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 274 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 0 -4] [-9 0 -4] [-8.53 -5 -1.8] [-5.47 -5 -1.8]".
01538 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 275 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 0 4] [-9 0 4] [-9 -12 5] [-5 -12 5]".
01539 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 276 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 -16 3.4] [-9 -16 3.4] [-9 -12 5] [-5 -12 5]".
01540 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 351 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 -20 -3.4] [-5 -20 0] [-5 -29 4.3] [-5 -29 -4.3]".
01541 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 352 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 -20 3.4] [-5 -20 0] [-5 -29 4.3] [-5 -25 4.3]".
01542 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 353 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[5 -20 -3.4] [5 -20 0] [5 -29 4.3] [5 -29 -4.3]".
01543 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 354 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[5 -20 3.4] [5 -20 0] [5 -29 4.3] [5 -25 4.3]".
01544 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 355 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[5 -29 -4.3] [5 -29 4.3] [-5 -29 4.3] [-5 -29 -4.3]".
01545 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 380 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -34 0] [4 -33 0] [4 -33 1.5] [4 -34.3 1.5]".
01546 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 381 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -35.2 2.8] [4 -33 4.3] [4 -33 1.5] [4 -34.3 1.5]".
01547 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 384 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 4] [4 -38 6.6] [4 -35.5 6.1] [4 -36.5 3.7]".
01548 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 385 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 4] [4 -38 6.6] [4 -40.5 6.1] [4 -39.5 3.7]".
01549 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 388 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -34 0] [4 -33 0] [4 -33 -1.5] [4 -34.3 -1.5]".
01550 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 389 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -35.2 -2.8] [4 -33 -4.3] [4 -33 -1.5] [4 -34.3 -1.5]".
01551 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 392 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 -4] [4 -38 -6.6] [4 -35.5 -6.1] [4 -36.5 -3.7]".
01552 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 393 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 -4] [4 -38 -6.6] [4 -40.5 -6.1] [4 -39.5 -3.7]".
01553 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 416 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -34 0] [-4 -33 0] [-4 -33 1.5] [-4 -34.3 1.5]".
01554 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 417 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -35.2 2.8] [-4 -33 4.3] [-4 -33 1.5] [-4 -34.3 1.5]".
01555 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 420 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -38 4] [-4 -38 6.6] [-4 -35.5 6.1] [-4 -36.5 3.7]".
01556 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 421 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -38 4] [-4 -38 6.6] [-4 -40.5 6.1] [-4 -39.5 3.7]".
01557 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 424 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -34 0] [-4 -33 0] [-4 -33 -1.5] [-4 -34.3 -1.5]".
01558 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 425 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -35.2 -2.8] [-4 -33 -4.3] [-4 -33 -1.5] [-4 -34.3 -1.5]".
01559 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 428 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -38 -4] [-4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -35.5 -6.1] [-4 -36.5 -3.7]".
01560 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 429 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -38 -4] [-4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -40.5 -6.1] [-4 -39.5 -3.7]".
01561 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 444 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 4] [-4 -38 4] [-4 -39.5 3.7] [4 -39.5 3.7]".
01562 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 445 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 -4] [-4 -38 -4] [-4 -39.5 -3.7] [4 -39.5 -3.7]".
01563 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 446 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -39.8 -3.5] [-4 -39.8 -3.5] [-4 -39.5 -3.7] [4 -39.5 -3.7]".
01564 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 447 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -39.8 3.5] [-4 -39.8 3.5] [-4 -39.5 3.7] [4 -39.5 3.7]".
01565 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 448 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -39.8 3.5] [-4 -39.8 3.5] [-4 -42.7 3.5] [4 -42.7 3.5]".
01566 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 449 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -39.8 -3.5] [-4 -39.8 -3.5] [-4 -42.7 -3.5] [4 -42.7 -3.5]".
01567 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 450 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -43 3.8] [-4 -43 3.8] [-4 -42.7 3.5] [4 -42.7 3.5]".
01568 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 451 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -43 -3.8] [-4 -43 -3.8] [-4 -42.7 -3.5] [4 -42.7 -3.5]".
01569 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 452 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -43 -3.8] [-4 -43 -3.8] [-4 -43 -4.2] [4 -43 -4.2]".
01570 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 453 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -43 3.8] [-4 -43 3.8] [-4 -43 4.2] [4 -43 4.2]".
01571 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 454 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -42.7 4.6] [-4 -42.7 4.6] [-4 -43 4.2] [4 -43 4.2]".
01572 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 455 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -42.7 -4.6] [-4 -42.7 -4.6] [-4 -43 -4.2] [4 -43 -4.2]".
01573 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 456 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -42.7 -4.6] [-4 -42.7 -4.6] [-4 -40.5 -6.1] [4 -40.5 -6.1]".
01574 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 457 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -42.7 4.6] [-4 -42.7 4.6] [-4 -40.5 6.1] [4 -40.5 6.1]".
01575 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 458 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 6.6] [-4 -38 6.6] [-4 -40.5 6.1] [4 -40.5 6.1]".
01576 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 459 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -40.5 -6.1] [4 -40.5 -6.1]".
01577 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 460 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -38 -6.6] [-4 -35.5 -6.1] [4 -35.5 -6.1]".
01578 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 461 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -38 6.6] [-4 -38 6.6] [-4 -35.5 6.1] [4 -35.5 6.1]".
01579 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 462 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -33.3 4.6] [-4 -33.3 4.6] [-4 -35.5 6.1] [4 -35.5 6.1]".
01580 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 463 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -33.3 -4.6] [-4 -33.3 -4.6] [-4 -35.5 -6.1] [4 -35.5 -6.1]".
01581 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 464 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -33.3 -4.6] [-4 -33.3 -4.6] [-4 -33 -4.3] [4 -33 -4.3]".
01582 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 465 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[4 -33.3 4.6] [-4 -33.3 4.6] [-4 -33 4.3] [4 -33 4.3]".
01583 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 477 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-9 -29 -4.3] [-9 -33 -4.3] [9 -33 -4.3] [9 -29 -4.3]".
01584 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 478 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 -29 4.3] [-9 -33 4.3] [9 -33 4.3] [5 -29 4.3]".
01585 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 479 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[5 -29 4.3] [9 -33 4.3] [9 -25 4.3] [5 -25 4.3]".
01586 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 480 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-5 -29 4.3] [-9 -33 4.3] [-9 -25 4.3] [-5 -25 4.3]".
01587 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 487 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[9 -33 4.3] [9 -33 -4.3] [4 -33 -4.3] [4 -33 4.3]".
01588 | 2014-11-03_21:10:24 | Warning | LDraw file load | C:\Program Files (x86)\LDraw\parts\30376.dat | line 488 | Twisted quad detected, corrected to "[-4 -33 4.3] [-4 -33 -4.3] [-9 -33 -4.3] [-9 -33 4.3]".Above output might be userfull for making the corrections if anyone want to give it a go.
I agree with Roland, not only the work would be huge, but it would break compatibility with a ton of programs out there... And nothing precludes people to convert LDraw parts to other file formats for their usage.
Going to clean droid leg...
Quote:Jantjeuh indeed brigl doesn't attempt at sanitizing bad part files. There are some viewer around that does (LDView for example)This might be considered a problem: as most programs do clean-up bad files, were are not aware of the remaining issue in our library. Of course it was a good thing in the past when most parts were not BFCed...
Going to clean droid leg...
Hello there, i'm nicola80 (aka msx80 aka msx, depending on username availability 
), author of brigl.
I don't want to sound harsh, but since i frequented this forum i've seen many people lamenting on the file format of LDraw. Some people even went on to create their own library, such as mecabricks (with normals). I've adressed the issue many times in the forum, without receiving much response. I'll restate some of my points here:
About the error in the library (quads etc), i think this is a minor problem. I think i could spend a day or two implementing some correction code, but i really think the problem is on the part library. They can be easily corrected as soon as they're discovered. But you have many different "correction" code already available, why not run them on the whole library and sanitize once and for all? LDView, MLCad, and many other programs already do this and their code is already pretty solid. This is so straightforward i really think there's no reason no to do this.
About CCW/CW/Invertnext/double sided poly: for all i can see, this is completely superfluous. No other file format i know (and i know some), has things like this. This is not a big issue, but again is an arbitrary and useless thing we have on top, it's a mix of legacy and solutions from a time where saving a single triangle was a big gain. Now video card can pump out gazillion triangles with ease. Just stick with a direction, and convert the library.
About conditional lines: well this is something really messy. It's some kind of cell shading algorithm, but it is implemented in a way that contast with modern rendering tecnique where you build a bunch of vertex and give them to the graphic card. Nowadays, this kind of problem are solved with shaders. There's no problem in leaving the cond line there of course (except that some parts have errors), one can always ignore them. Except that they're basically used for smoothing, and this bring the BIG problem:
Normals. No other single file format i've seen leave out normals to be computed by the user. There's absolutely no reasons not to include them. They're integral part of a geometry definition. Why forcing every single developer to reinvent the wheel, to spend countless hour on a custom smoothing algorithm. Algorithms that are already usually complicated, but more so for ldraw where definitions are sparse in multiple files, and one have to take into consideration hard and cond lines. I'm not a newbie of 3d programming (not a genius either by all means), and yet i've spent days trying to implement this algorithm and have yet to succeed. Of course i could spend some other weeks and do it, but why? And even if i did, we'll end up with many different programs, each one with its own algorithm, all slightly different, all buggy in a different way and with no consistency at all.
Implementing normals is actually very easy, just prepend every single quad/tri with a new command/comment:
0 NORMALS v1x v1y v1z v2x v2y v2z v3x v3y v3z [v4x v4y v4z]
There. No compatibility broken at all. Sure it's not an easy task, but as i said above all the software is already there, it just need to be glued together in some "smart" sanitizing scripts. Unfortunately it's all C, and i don't know the language, otherwise i would have already tried myself.
Again i don't want to be polemic, but i think it's time to update the format. It seems to me that there's a strong sentiment to hold things like they're now, just as if people were afraid of changes. Brigl is currently used on three major sites, Brickset, Rebrickable and Bricklink. It could be a good chance to promote LDraw over competing formats. As i said mecabricks looks wonderful, they have grown a library incredibly quickly, and the results are both performant and gorgeous.
Please take this the good way and try and consider my suggestion.
), author of brigl.I don't want to sound harsh, but since i frequented this forum i've seen many people lamenting on the file format of LDraw. Some people even went on to create their own library, such as mecabricks (with normals
). I've adressed the issue many times in the forum, without receiving much response. I'll restate some of my points here:About the error in the library (quads etc), i think this is a minor problem. I think i could spend a day or two implementing some correction code, but i really think the problem is on the part library. They can be easily corrected as soon as they're discovered. But you have many different "correction" code already available, why not run them on the whole library and sanitize once and for all? LDView, MLCad, and many other programs already do this and their code is already pretty solid. This is so straightforward i really think there's no reason no to do this.
About CCW/CW/Invertnext/double sided poly: for all i can see, this is completely superfluous. No other file format i know (and i know some), has things like this. This is not a big issue, but again is an arbitrary and useless thing we have on top, it's a mix of legacy and solutions from a time where saving a single triangle was a big gain. Now video card can pump out gazillion triangles with ease. Just stick with a direction, and convert the library.
About conditional lines: well this is something really messy. It's some kind of cell shading algorithm, but it is implemented in a way that contast with modern rendering tecnique where you build a bunch of vertex and give them to the graphic card. Nowadays, this kind of problem are solved with shaders. There's no problem in leaving the cond line there of course (except that some parts have errors), one can always ignore them. Except that they're basically used for smoothing, and this bring the BIG problem:
Normals. No other single file format i've seen leave out normals to be computed by the user. There's absolutely no reasons not to include them. They're integral part of a geometry definition. Why forcing every single developer to reinvent the wheel, to spend countless hour on a custom smoothing algorithm. Algorithms that are already usually complicated, but more so for ldraw where definitions are sparse in multiple files, and one have to take into consideration hard and cond lines. I'm not a newbie of 3d programming (not a genius either by all means), and yet i've spent days trying to implement this algorithm and have yet to succeed. Of course i could spend some other weeks and do it, but why? And even if i did, we'll end up with many different programs, each one with its own algorithm, all slightly different, all buggy in a different way and with no consistency at all.
Implementing normals is actually very easy, just prepend every single quad/tri with a new command/comment:
0 NORMALS v1x v1y v1z v2x v2y v2z v3x v3y v3z [v4x v4y v4z]
There. No compatibility broken at all. Sure it's not an easy task, but as i said above all the software is already there, it just need to be glued together in some "smart" sanitizing scripts. Unfortunately it's all C, and i don't know the language, otherwise i would have already tried myself.
Again i don't want to be polemic, but i think it's time to update the format. It seems to me that there's a strong sentiment to hold things like they're now, just as if people were afraid of changes. Brigl is currently used on three major sites, Brickset, Rebrickable and Bricklink. It could be a good chance to promote LDraw over competing formats. As i said mecabricks looks wonderful, they have grown a library incredibly quickly, and the results are both performant and gorgeous.
Please take this the good way and try and consider my suggestion.
I'm all for revising the spec. I'm even ok with marginally breaking backwards compatibility. The immediate support from developers is needed however. I have a bad taste in my mouth from the glacial time it took to adopt the new color meta. This is why the LSC was supposed to be developer heavy but community involvement has been tepid for some years now. This may be due to lack of interest, loss of user base from LDD, or simply because we don't really have any LDraw evangelizing at conventions since I stopped having time to go 4 years ago. Not sure but this a topic for a different thread. If you want to revise the spec (or critique the current one), start a new thread, I will participate and provide objective feedback.
While I agree that BFC is a good thing, there is a trivial solution to non-BFC geometry that works in all circumstances where back-face culling is required and not optional: draw the geometry twice, once with each facing. One might naively suppose that this would have a crippling effect on performance, but the reality is that it is likely to have a minimal effect on performance due to GPU caching and the very back-face culling that's causing the problem in the first place. The culling insures that only one of the two faces will be drawn, and the one that isn't drawn gets rejected very quickly.
In fact, the LDraw BFC extension takes so much effort to properly support that I'm quite surprised that people who are willing to go to the trouble of supporting aren't willing to go to the trivial effort of supporting non-BFC geometry.
In fact, the LDraw BFC extension takes so much effort to properly support that I'm quite surprised that people who are willing to go to the trouble of supporting aren't willing to go to the trivial effort of supporting non-BFC geometry.
Nicola Wrote:About CCW/CW/Invertnext/double sided poly: for all i can see, this is completely superfluous. No other file format i know (and i know some), has things like this. This is not a big issue, but again is an arbitrary and useless thing we have on top, it's a mix of legacy and solutions from a time where saving a single triangle was a big gain. Now video card can pump out gazillion triangles with ease. Just stick with a direction, and convert the library.
The LDraw file format is fundamentally based on primitives, and most primitives don't have an inside or an outside, so while the CW/CCW settings are indeed optional (included for the convenience of part authors), the INVERTNEXT command is necessary, and will always be necessary (unless we replaced every flippable primitive with two, where one was pre-inverted). Supporting CW/CCW is trivial, and in fact nearly free once you have support for INVERTNEXT, so having it there for the convenience of part authors makes perfect sense. And even if INVERTNEXT were lacking, similar flipping code would be needed to support mirror matrices.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, double sided polygons are trivial: draw them twice, once with each orientation.
Not quite what was asked, but the Parts Tracker Tools page has been updated to include a list of files that currently have no '0 BFC CERTIFY' statement.
Chris (LDraw Parts Library Admin)
Great, Thank you.
I don't see any recycled parts.
And I find many official parts in that list, that I know is recycled and already fixed at the PT.
Here's one:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?s=2684c01
Would it be possible to make that search?
I don't see any recycled parts.
And I find many official parts in that list, that I know is recycled and already fixed at the PT.
Here's one:
http://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?s=2684c01
Would it be possible to make that search?
Merlijn Wissink Wrote:I really considered making all LDraw models OMR, but I decided not to do that (yet). Simply because I don't have the time to modify all the headers. And, because according to the OMR standard (as far as I know), if the set is only 1 thing (for example, only 1 plane), it should be a .ldr and not a .mpd with submodels. However, a lot of the models are made with a bunch of submodels (for example a submodel for the tail, a submodel for the door etc. etc.). It's not OMR, but in my opinion it would be a waste if only I wouldn't share the file, just because it's not completely OMR.
Which is a real pitty. OMR isn't that complicated and the benefit is that you get a standardized header for set numbers and names. Also MPDCenter does a good job in identifing errors and more important inline unofficial parts. Just check out the models that ship with the AIOI.
Maybe we just need a tool that does just that, check and validate OMR and nothing else - MIKE!
w.
LEGO ergo sum
Maybe we just need a tool that does just that, check and validate OMR and nothing else - MIKE!
MPDCenter just do that in the first place. If all is ok, all checks says TRUE. If there is any error there is written ERROR. Just that simple.
Why do you need for this a new tool? MPDCenter checks this for you already.
MPDCenter just do that in the first place. If all is ok, all checks says TRUE. If there is any error there is written ERROR. Just that simple.
Why do you need for this a new tool? MPDCenter checks this for you already.
Steffen Wrote:Nicola, doing this trivial addition to your rendering code would solve your problem.
May I humbly ask you to add it? Then the problem would be gone for good.
What code do you mean? Brigl already does support CCW/CW/Invertnext/double sided etc. It is (almost) fully compilant with the geometry specifications of LDraw, the glitch it shows are from uncorrected files (as discussed here)
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