Adding Minifig Categories

[Orion Pobursky]

I think we need a few more Minifig categories and would like community input.

I'd like to add:
Minifig Upper => for Torso Assemblies
Minifig Lower => for Leg Assemblies
Minifig Complete => for Minifig that come as complete assemblies (e.g. Smart Brick minifigs)

(we should probably also extend these to Figure as well)

If you have an alternate suggestion remember that categories are limited to 2 words.

[Jeff Jones]

the "statue" figures like the hordika minifigs and sebulba what would they be?

minifig complete or minifig body?

[Manfred Schaefer]

I think we need a few more Minifig categories and would like community input.

I'd like to add:
Minifig Upper => for Torso Assemblies
Minifig Lower => for Leg Assemblies
Minifig Complete => for Minifig that come as complete assemblies (e.g. Smart Brick minifigs)

(we should probably also extend these to Figure as well)

If you have an alternate suggestion remember that categories are limited to 2 words.

You mean we should use “Figure” instead of “Minifig”?
That would mean, for example:
Figure Head,
Figure Torso,
Figure Arm,
Figure Hand,
Figure Hip,
Figure Leg,
Figure Upper for complete upper bodies,
Figure Lower for complete lower bodies,
Figure Complete for complete figures.

For the figures Jeff mentioned, we could use “Figure Statue.”
I wouldn’t use “Complete” or “Body” for these figures, since “Complete” refers to something assembled, and “Body” tends to refer to an upper or lower body.

For “Minifig,” I’d stick with the classic modern LEGO minifigure; for large figures like the Hulk, I’d use “Bigfig” as the category; and for the Friends figures, I’d use “Dollfig.”

[Orion Pobursky]

While I love specificity, I think this is a bit overkill to have a category for each individual component. As far a Minifig itself, that's not going away. Figure is what we use for non-minifigs.

Since the torso assemblies are new, I want to break them out into their own category.  That's the primary reason for this post. I figured that if torso assemblies get a category then leg assemblies should too and Philo pointed out the new Smart Brick minifigs come as a complete unit so we should account for those as well.

[N. W. Perry]

Would heads also belong in the Upper category? Would make sense, as you can't get much more "upper" than that. (And also since heads were traditionally manufactured as part of the torso assembly.)

[Orion Pobursky]

No. Upper will only be for torso assemblies.

[Gerald Lasser]

it is a good idea to seperate the assemblies from the rest, the minifig category is currently at 4300 parts, that IS a lot. amd makes browsing through in LDCAD tideou, although the Minifig part bins already seperate them to a certain extent.

A seperate "Head" section might be good as well, we do have 500 standard heads and around 240 specialized ones.


There would still be a lot left in the Minifig category, i.e. the single pieces of the assemblies. splitting it into too small items is not good IMHO, e.g. "hands" thoese are not really a lot.

[Orion Pobursky]

We could do Minifig Leg/Head/Torso as well.

[N. W. Perry]

A head category seems sensible, otherwise it might not be clear that heads don't belong with "Upper". "Upper" is not the most accurate name, but probably better than "Torso" because arms and hands would also belong there.

Or, is the idea more about separating assemblies from individual components?

[Chris Böhnke]

the "statue" figures like the hordika minifigs and sebulba what would they be?

minifig complete or minifig body?

Those are not standardized parts and should be either the generic minifig category or something like "Creature", "Alien", "Robot" or the likes.

Note that TLG themselves tend to categorize those as either "Animal" or "Robot" parts.

[Chris Böhnke]

A head category seems sensible, otherwise it might not be clear that heads don't belong with "Upper". "Upper" is not the most accurate name, but probably better than "Torso" because arms and hands would also belong there.

Or, is the idea more about separating assemblies from individual components?

The "Upper"/"Lower" terms coincide with the official terminology.
https://brickset.com/parts/73835/mini-upperpart-no-4
https://brickset.com/parts/9339/mini-bod...part-black
https://brickset.com/parts/4292298/mini-...rt-no-1266

Note that since these are shortcuts anyways - the official ones did come with pre-assembled heads prior to 2005 (not sure it makes a difference in this discussion though).

[Magnus Forsberg]

What else should be included in Upper and Lower?

I would like to see the 2x2 slopes with printed skirt/dress pattern included in Minifig Lower, change category from Slope.
Are there more pattern that should be included?

[N. W. Perry]

The "Upper"/"Lower" terms coincide with the official terminology.
[…]
Note that since these are shortcuts anyways - the official ones did come with pre-assembled heads prior to 2005 (not sure it makes a difference in this discussion though).

Yes, I should have said "Upper" is not the most accurate name, if heads are to be excluded. (Not that I can think of a better one, since "Torso" is also inaccurate.)

What else should be included in Upper and Lower?

I would like to see the 2x2 slopes with printed skirt/dress pattern included in Minifig Lower, change category from Slope.

If heads don't belong in Upper, then slopes probably don't belong in Lower.

Maybe the key question is, are we really making new categories (grouping based on function), or just using "Category" to create a place for hand-arm-torso assemblies, and another for hips-legs assemblies? If the latter, should the category name somehow reflect that it's for assemblies?

[Gerald Lasser]

I did some counting:

Minifig --------------> 2867 (without heads)
Minifig Accessory -> 846
Minifig Footwear --> 13
Minifig Headwear -> 786
Minifig Hipwear ---> 42
Minifig Neckwear -->138

Headwear is 339 containing "Hair" and 447 being not related to "Hair"

Accessories: Difficult to make a sensible spli, Weapons, Food, Shield, Music Instruments, Sports Equipment?

Minifig, split makes most sense
-> Heads (3626 and aliases)---------------- -> 547
-> Other Heads (SW, Licences Alien, etc,) -> 245

Assemblies
-> Minifig Torso with Arms and Hands -> 860
-> Hips and Legs --------------------------> 281

Parts:
-> Arms -> 78
-> Hand -> 5
-> Torso -> 960
-> Hips --> 144
-> Legs --> 398

The remaining 171 contain Mechanicla Torsi, some parts without category etc.

[Orion Pobursky]

Ok. What's your suggestion based on this data?

[Magnus Forsberg]

Minifig, split makes most sense
-> Heads (3626 and aliases)---------------- -> 547
-> Other Heads (SW, Licences Alien, etc,) -> 245

Assemblies
-> Minifig Torso with Arms and Hands -> 860
-> Hips and Legs --------------------------> 281

I think the numbers are even bigger. 
I'm counting 929 torso assys, most of them based on 973, but with different types of arms, dual mould, wings, blaster arm, flippers, boxing glove, and so on. They all have a different assy number, not 76382.

And the same with the legs. 
I have 8 different assys based on the 3815b-hip, plus all other hip-parts based on the hipstud primitive; centaur, mermaids, skirts, long and wide, with tentacles, snake tail.

[Gerald Lasser]

Ok. What's your suggestion based on this data?

Minifig Head (~800)
Minifig Assemblies (complete Torsi, complete Hips and Figures) (~1100)
Minifig Upper Body (Torsi, Arms, Hands) (~1050)
Minifig Lower Body (Hips, Legs) (~600)

Would this make sense?

[Magnus Forsberg]

Minifig Head (~800)
Minifig Assemblies (complete Torsi, complete Hips and Figures) (~1100)
Minifig Upper Body (Torsi, Arms, Hands) (~1050)
Minifig Lower Body (Hips, Legs) (~600)

Would this make sense?

Could you describe what you mean by "Minifig Assemblies (complete Torsi, complete Hips and Figures)"?

[Orion Pobursky]

Can't do:
Minifig Upper Body
Minifig Lower Body

Those are greater than 2 words

Minfig Assemblies should be Minifig Assembly
I'm not sure I like lumping torso, leg, and whole body assemblies into one catchall category. 

I propose:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper => Complete Torsos
Minifig Lower => Complete Legs and Hips

Maybe:
Minfig Leg
Minifig Arm
Minifig Assembly or Minifig Body => Minifig's that come as one unit (smart brick)

I'd really like to retire the single word Minfig category so maybe a Minifig Other?

[Gerald Lasser]

I'd really like to retire the single word Minfig category so maybe a Minifig Other?

Browsing through the Minifig Category, there is basically nothing left after adding these categories. There are a number of Helmets, Accessories etc. that can be moved to these categories. then it would be practically empty.

[Chris Böhnke]

Can't do:
Minifig Upper Body
Minifig Lower Body

Those are greater than 2 words

Minfig Assemblies should be Minifig Assembly
I'm not sure I like lumping torso, leg, and whole body assemblies into one catchall category. 

I propose:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper => Complete Torsos
Minifig Lower => Complete Legs and Hips

Maybe:
Minfig Leg
Minifig Arm
Minifig Assembly or Minifig Body => Minifig's that come as one unit (smart brick)

I'd really like to retire the single word Minfig category so maybe a Minifig Other?

 I would like this approach.

[Orion Pobursky]

Final proposal:

Retire the one word Minfig category

Add the following:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper => Complete Torsos
Minifig Lower => Complete Legs and Hips
Minfig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm
Minifig Assembly => Complete Minifigs (e.g. Smart brick)

I also reserved the right to implement Minifig Other (or something to that effect)

[Philippe Hurbain]

Final proposal:

Retire the one word Minfig category

Add the following:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper => Complete Torsos
Minifig Lower => Complete Legs and Hips
Minfig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm
Minifig Assembly => Complete Minifigs (e.g. Smart brick)

I also reserved the right to implement Minifig Other (or something to that effect)

I'm fine with that.

[Orion Pobursky]

Any opposition?

I will implement for unofficial parts once the new categories are added to the library code.
For official parts, this will be done via mass update after the July Release.

[Magnus Forsberg]

Final proposal:

Retire the one word Minfig category

Add the following:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper => Complete Torsos
Minifig Lower => Complete Legs and Hips
Minfig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm
Minifig Assembly => Complete Minifigs (e.g. Smart brick)

I also reserved the right to implement Minifig Other (or something to that effect)

Could we please have some examples? Maybe based on the parts I wrote above?
What is included, or excluded?

[Orion Pobursky]

Could we please have some examples? Maybe based on the parts I wrote above?
What is included, or excluded?

Minifig Head => All parts (patterned or unpatterned) that are/were intended to fit on a minfig torso.  This includes all the head stud variants and any other non-standard shapes. Example: 3626, 28621, 22878

Minfig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm => Similar to above but for the respective body part.  Includes dual mold part numbers.

Minifig Upper => All complete (torso, arms, hands) torso assemblies. Includes dual mold part numbers. Example: 76382, 16360
Minifig Lower => All complete (legs, hips) hips and legs assemblies. Includes dual mold part numbers. Example: 73200b, 84133. I think this should probably also include 16709 for consistency.
Minifig Assembly => All minifig bodies that come as one complete assembly. Example:  116406.

Note:
None of these are intended for Minidoll parts (which would use the corresponding Figure _____ )
Any overlap between Minifig and Figure (i.e. Minidolls) should default to most common usage or first usage.

[Magnus Forsberg]

Minifig Head => All parts (patterned or unpatterned) that are/were intended to fit on a minfig torso.  This includes all the head stud variants and any other non-standard shapes. Example: 3626, 28621, 22878

Minfig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm => Similar to above but for the respective body part.  Includes dual mold part numbers.

Minifig Upper => All complete (torso, arms, hands) torso assemblies. Includes dual mold part numbers. Example: 76382, 16360
Minifig Lower => All complete (legs, hips) hips and legs assemblies. Includes dual mold part numbers. Example: 73200b, 84133. I think this should probably also include 16709 for consistency.
Minifig Assembly => All minifig bodies that come as one complete assembly. Example:  116406.

"and any other non-standard shapes"  Does that include the Muppets, for example?

22878 should not be included since it was never intended as a separate part. It's in a keychain, complete assy.

How about other Hips parts like mermaids 95351, or skirts 36036?

[Orion Pobursky]

"and any other non-standard shapes"  Does that include the Muppets, for example?

Yes. Muppets, Sesame Street, I think there's one with a Pinocchio nose, stuff like that.

22878 should not be included since it was never intended as a separate part. It's in a keychain, complete assy.

Good point. I was just pulling numbers from a quick search.

How about other Hips parts like mermaids 95351, or skirts 36036?

Sure. They fit paradigm. I think no to the skirt patterned slopes though.

[Magnus Forsberg]

Ok, go ahead.

[Gerald Lasser]

Where do the parts of the assemblies og? i.e. a 973

because you wrote "complete torso assemblies" 

od do they stay in "Minifig"

[Orion Pobursky]

Where do the parts of the assemblies og? i.e. a 973

because you wrote "complete torso assemblies" 

od do they stay in "Minifig"

Hmm.  Good question. Suggestions?

[Philippe Hurbain]

Hmm.  Good question. Suggestions?

Since we are going to have arms and legs categories, torsi should have their own minifigs torso category IMHO.

[Gerald Lasser]

Since we are going to have arms and legs categories, torsi should have their own minifigs torso category IMHO.

indeed, thats the straight forward way. I must have overread the hips and legs

[Orion Pobursky]

indeed, thats the straight forward way. I must have overread the hips and legs

Yup. I didn't notice I omitted Torso as well.

Where should we put hands?

[Magnus Forsberg]

I like the sorting Roland made in LDCad:
Head
Head, modified
Torso
Torsos, complete
Arm
Hand
Hip
Leg
Hips, complete
Hats
Hair
Accessories

and then I added:
Footwear
Hipwear
Neckwear

[Orion Pobursky]

Clearly the discussion wasn't done.  Here's the new proposal:

Retire the one word Minfig category

Add the following:
Minifig Head
Minifig Upper
Minifig Lower
Minifig Leg
Minifig Hips
Minifig Arm
Minifig Torso
Minifig Hand
Minifig Assembly

I also reserved the right to implement Minifig Other (or something to that effect)

Same as above for the corresponding Figure category

--

I am not sold on Minifig Assembly. I'd think Minifig Body might be better but it also might be more confusing.

[Ludo Soete]

Hi to all,

Sorry to interrupt, but I would definitely like to see all Friends and Fabuland figures & accessories separated from their current locations too. 
This would make it much easier to select only the parts in the correct folder. 
Currently, you already have to scroll all the way down in the 'Other Parts\F' folder to search for a flag. 

As for the minifigure, all accessories should also be placed in a separate folder. 
This makes everything much more organized. 
The same applies to the 'Other Parts\A' folder, separating the animals from the other parts (arch, ...).
The number of stickers is also growing beyond the horizon.
It is easier and more pleasant to search for items in a neat folder than to always have to scroll through items that one will not use in an entire lifetime.

so lets say a separate folder for:
Friends
Fabuland
Duplo
Minifig accessories
Animals
Stickers

Just my toughts so far.

And while I'm here just a side note.
Is it possible to 'activate' the full Scan order in the MLCad.ini file like:
[SCAN_ORDER]
1 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Parts
2 = HIDE <LDRAWDIR>P
3 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Parts
4 = HIDE <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\P
5 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Helper
6 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Custom

I always forget where it's located, and once I find its location (Roaming is normally a hidden folder!), them I forget to 'activate' the Unofficial\ Helper & Custom folders.
This can be frustrating and drop then all the unofficial files in the Unofficial\ Parts folder.
I guess this scan happens only at the startup from MLCad, so once launched, and these folders don't exists or are empty don't have an impact on the MLCad prestation (slowing down due to these 2 extra folders).


Best regards.

[Orion Pobursky]

Hi to all,

Sorry to interrupt, but I would definitely like to see all Friends and Fabuland figures & accessories separated from their current locations too. 
This would make it much easier to select only the parts in the correct folder. 
Currently, you already have to scroll all the way down in the 'Other Parts\F' folder to search for a flag. 

As for the minifigure, all accessories should also be placed in a separate folder. 
This makes everything much more organized. 
The same applies to the 'Other Parts\A' folder, separating the animals from the other parts (arch, ...).
The number of stickers is also growing beyond the horizon.
It is easier and more pleasant to search for items in a neat folder than to always have to scroll through items that one will not use in an entire lifetime.

so lets say a separate folder for:
Friends
Fabuland
Duplo
Minifig accessories
Animals
Stickers

Just my toughts so far.

And while I'm here just a side note.
Is it possible to 'activate' the full Scan order in the MLCad.ini file like:
[SCAN_ORDER]
1 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Parts
2 = HIDE <LDRAWDIR>P
3 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Parts
4 = HIDE <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\P
5 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Helper
6 = SHOW <LDRAWDIR>Unofficial\Custom

I always forget where it's located, and once I find its location (Roaming is normally a hidden folder!), them I forget to 'activate' the Unofficial\ Helper & Custom folders.
This can be frustrating and drop then all the unofficial files in the Unofficial\ Parts folder.
I guess this scan happens only at the startup from MLCad, so once launched, and these folders don't exists or are empty don't have an impact on the MLCad prestation (slowing down due to these 2 extra folders).


Best regards.

I agree that the default sort buckets for MLCad are a lot to be desired.  I also don't think MLCad reads CATEGORY for it's sorting so none of the discussion here will help out in that regard.

P.S. Stop using MLCad.  It's abandonware and LDCad is head and shoulders better.