Missing Parts

[Kevin Roach]

I became slightly confused today. There are parts that I pulled off your website many years ago. Now it seems as if they don’t exist. They are parts for the Train Track 9v Points. They were authored by Soete Ludo. I submitted one thinking it was an update. Only it was treated as if I authored it. Could you please explain?
This is the part list:
2864.dat
2866.dat
s\2864s01.dat

[Tim Gould]

Sorry, what 'your website' do you mean? And what did you mean by 'submitted'.

I'm really quite at a loss to understand what you mean here.

Tim

[Kevin Roach]

I assume I got them from the Parts Tracker. But now there is no reference of them.

[Magnus Forsberg]

They might come from Tomas Burgers BS folder here.

In that folder are also two partnumbers that might be relevant here.
53404/53407, switch right/left, but I can also find numbers 53403/53406 as switch right/left.
I think that it is part alias numbers.

[Chris Dee]

Maybe you got them from LUGNET
2864, 2866, s/2864s01
and they were never submitted to the LDraw Parts Tracker

Ludo Soete has affirmed the contributor agreement so if you wish to leave him as the original author you should set the author line to:

Code:

0 Author: Ludo Soete [ludo]

[Kevin Roach]

Now I just noticed that things have gotten a little complicated with the parts 2859 and 2861. It seems an author/reviewer has submitted other versions of these parts. And when I submit my updates. The submission is changed somehow.

My main goal is to get these parts certified. I don’t care who gets the credit. So if you can narrow down what needs to be what? I will do my best to fix it. I can understand simple fixes, but this is blown out of proportion.

It is not like these file just popped up last week. They have been in the Parts Tracker since 2009.

And thank you for the answer to my first question. I thought I was going nuts.

[Chris Dee]

They way in which we handle these complex assemblies has changed over the years. The current thinking is to publish each separate moulding as a LDraw "Part", but to prefix the description with "~" if it is not a part that is issued separately by LEGO. In many cases we don't know (and maybe will never know) the design number for these moulding, so thet get allocated a Unnnn number.

Subparts should only be used for repeated or reusable sections of a "Part". A pertinent example is for sections of a part that may be used in mirror-image form in another part - but to allow stud substitution by renderers that include the LEGO logo, studs should not be included in such subparts, but rather placed in the parent part file.

The issued assembly is normally nnnnC01, where nnnn is the design number of the largest or most obvious "Part". Sometime we know the LEGO number for the assembly.

I can rename and renumber as Admin, so please give me a day or so to straighten this out, then we can assess what remains to be done.

[Joshua Delahunty]

They way in which we handle these complex assemblies has changed over the years. The current thinking is to publish each separate moulding as a LDraw "Part", but to prefix the description with "~" if it is not a part that is issued separately by LEGO. In many cases we don't know (and maybe will never know) the design number for these moulding, so thet get allocated a Unnnn number.

Subparts should only be used for repeated or reusable sections of a "Part". A pertinent example is for sections of a part that may be used in mirror-image form in another part - but to allow stud substitution by renderers that include the LEGO logo, studs should not be included in such subparts, but rather placed in the parent part file.

The issued assembly is normally nnnnC01, where nnnn is the design number of the largest or most obvious "Part". Sometime we know the LEGO number for the assembly.

I can rename and renumber as Admin, so please give me a day or so to straighten this out, then we can assess what remains to be done.

Chris,

All sub-part codes are known for these parts. Keep me in the loop, please.

-- joshua

[Chris Dee]

Please post those as comments on the Parts Tracker, to avoid me renaming twice.

[Steffen]

Hello Kevin,
yesterday I've straightend out some of the glitches of the Train Track 9V parts.
Please download the latest version from the PT before continuing work.
Here's a summary of my changes:
- subfiled out the main body part portion of 2859.dat, 2861.dat into a new subfile s00 (which later should,
along with the other subfiles, become a ~part)
- replaced color 383 by 494
- unmirrored studs
- corrected origin of pivot to its rotation point
- corrected origin of 2859.dat, 2861.dat to match all the other currently official train track points, i.e., at the center of their straight portion
- changed 2859.dat, 2861.dat into shortcuts
- corrected positioning error in 2859.dat, 2861.dat: the pivot was in "branching" position, the lever was in "straight" position: tidied this up, so 2859.dat, 2861.dat now both are in "straight" position. Created additional shortcuts c00 in analogy to the 12V and 4.5V train points which represent the "branching" position.
- added shortcuts c01, c02 which add the yellow lever (currently a mockup).
- add the 3 missing primitives 3-8rin24.dat; 3-8con5.dat, 3-8con24.dat
- found the lever file on lugnet, BFCed it, loaded it up to the Parts Tracker
When somebody continues working on these parts, don't forget to update all necessary files and the subfiles,
i.e., start downloading top-down from
2859.dat, 2859c00.dat, 2859c01.dat, 2859c02.dat,
2861.dat, 2861c00.dat, 2861c01.dat, 2861c02.dat
LDView for example can do this easily.
My goal also is to get these out finally with the next parts release.
From my point of view there's just a handful of things remaining to correct:
(a) Some files need to be converted from subfiles to ~parts. Chris, I've put hold votes on the affected files, so you could easily find them.
(b) There are 2 files where 2 edges are too short, they also carry a hold vote
© If I remember correctly, I spotted a BFC error somewhere but am not really sure anymore.
Steffen


PS here is a good test assembly for an overview:
1 8 -117 0 330 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2861.dat
1 8 -577 0 330 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2861c00.dat
1 8 -117 0 -410 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2861c01.dat
1 8 -577 0 -410 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2861c02.dat
1 8 573 0 330 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2859c00.dat
1 8 133 0 340 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2859.dat
1 8 573 0 -380 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2859c02.dat
1 8 133 0 -370 0 0 -1 0 1 0 1 0 0 2859c01.dat
1 8 1173 0 537.8 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 32087.dat
1 8 870.5 0 1008.3 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 2867c04.dat
1 8 1199.9 0 97.8 0 0 1 0 1 0 -1 0 0 2865.dat

[Joshua Delahunty]

Please post those as comments on the Parts Tracker, to avoid me renaming twice.

Ugh. The original LUGNET post had all the right numbers (except the two he didn't know for the left-hand version). I'll dig through and see what I can do...

[Chris Dee]

Do you mean this? In which case I think we still need answers to:

2) I still need part numbers from the lefthand point. I need the part number
of the LEFTHAND point tongue and the LEFTHAND point bottom plate. All other
parts - point tongue command rod & yellow lever - are identical.

[Chris Dee]

I think I have straightened this out. To help I have created a Review Summary Page.

Still to do:
a) Create 2682 as mirror image of 2860
b) Create uNNNN as mirror image of 2863
c) Remove 2860 reference from 2859/2861 and add 2860/2862 references into 2859c01,c02/2861c01,c02.
d) Replace 2865s04r/2865s04l references in 2859/2861 with 2865s04 references and 6 correctly orientated studs.

Chris

[Chris Dee]

After further research and discussion, we now know that these part numbers 2859-2867 refer just to the plastic moulded parts of these track pieces. So, I'd prefer to strip the metal conductors into separate uNNNN part numbers (we are very unlikely to discover the LEGO design IDs for these). But we do know the LEGO numbers for the assemblies.

Straight rail 2865 + metal = 74746
Curved rail 2867 + metal = 74747
Right Point 2859 + 2860 + 2863 + metal = 75541
Left Point 2861 + 2862 + 2939 + metal = 75542

In order to make progress, I'll re-number the existing 2859, 2860, 2861, 2862, 2865 and 2867 to ....c00 versions. That way we are not dependent on someone finding the enthusiasm to model the platic and metal components, but we do fit with our numbering schema.

I'm also thinking that the wires and conductor plates s/2859s03,4,5,7,8 could be uNNNN ~-prefixed parts.

[Chris Dee]

Do you mean this? In which case I think we still need answers to:

2) I still need part numbers from the lefthand point. I need the part number
of the LEFTHAND point tongue and the LEFTHAND point bottom plate. All other
parts - point tongue command rod & yellow lever - are identical.

We now know:
LEFTHAND point tongue = 2862
LEFTHAND point bottom plate = 2939.

[Steffen]

I have added some notes to the c00 files as I after some thinking don't find them too useful,
now that we know the proper numbers for the points and the straight and the curved track.

One of our goals in numbering the files here should be to try to achieve an analogy in numbering
to the official 4.5 and 12V train tracks.
It is very difficult maybe to achieve, and will cost us perhaps some more renumbering iterations on the PT,
but I think we can make it.

[Chris Dee]

Yes, of course, I didn't think this through.

[Joshua Delahunty]

After further research and discussion, we now know that these part numbers 2859-2867 refer just to the plastic moulded parts of these track pieces. So, I'd prefer to strip the metal conductors into separate uNNNN part numbers (we are very unlikely to discover the LEGO design IDs for these).

Philo could dig these out, same as me. There are about 12 of them.

[Steffen]

factoring-out the metal parts into separate files is anyway required
because otherwise their edgelines will not look correct.
we did the same with the 12V track at their development. it was the same way tedious...

[Chris Dee]

we did the same with the 12V track at their development.

Really? That's not what I see at parts/s/861s01. I see a subpart that is a mixture of plastic and metal components.

[Joshua Delahunty]

factoring-out the metal parts into separate files is anyway required
because otherwise their edgelines will not look correct.
we did the same with the 12V track at their development. it was the same way tedious...

I was referring to Philo getting the item IDs of the metal parts. There isn't one number for all the metal, it's many small pieces, and -- as with EVERY other number since 1994, we do have them.

[Chris Dee]

That's great news that we have these numbers, even though these parts appeared in 1991. I withdraw my "we are very unlikely to discover the LEGO design IDs for these" comment.

[Joshua Delahunty]

That's great news that we have these numbers, even though these parts appeared in 1991. I withdraw my "we are very unlikely to discover the LEGO design IDs for these" comment.

They were still in the assortment as of 1994, making them "1994 parts" for the purposes of this discussion.

[Steffen]

You are right, I went for simplification there.
The reason why the edges still look correct there is that all metal parts are of type 1,
and do not model the metal by quads plus edges.
Doing the latter would create wrong colors for the edges.

That glitch is what I wanted to avoid for the 9V parts.

I just grepped all the 9V files of the PT, and in fact, they don't have such an error.
So I retract my argument above. Coloring of edges currently is not wrong,
so no correction is needed by separating into metal/plastic.

[Magnus Forsberg]

Wow, 13 years.....

Short recap. What has happened since then.

Max Martin Richter have made a complete overhaul of these parts and created new sub-parts, and I recently made an update of the summary page here:
https://library.ldraw.org/tracker/summary/2

   

Some parts are allready official. Many are reviewed and ready for a release.
However, there are some questions that still need to be clarified.

   

On the inside there are 4 similar contact plates, but they are "off". 
Are the 2 on the right correct? Missing some connection points?
And, there is a collission with the bottom lid, at the arrow.

I want to renumber the assemblies. These points are known as 75541 and 75542
Those numbers correspond to the old 2859c01-c02 and 2861c01-c02, the complete assemblies including the moving parts, but except the yellow lever.

2859c00  stay as the complete base assembly, without moving parts.
2859c01  with moving parts, position 1  will be 75541-f1
2859c02  with moving parts, position 2  will be 75541-f2
2859c03  with added yellow lever, position 1  will be 75541c01-f1
2859c04  with added yellow lever, position 2  will be 75541c01-f2

And offcourse, the same renumbering of 2861c01-c04 using 75542.

None of these parts have been official, so there is no need for a Move to, but they have been on the part tracker for 13 years.
Would it be OK to renumber them like this?