Terminating the CA?


Terminating the CA?
#1
As I am fed up with what has become of LDraw, I have decided not to contribute anymore. As my contributions to the parts library has already become quite scarse, you will probably not notice any difference there. Please don't try to talk me into giving it yet another try.

As I don't really approve to the derivative works made by LDraw.org to my already official parts either, I consider to cancel the agreement I once signed if possible. And here comes the tricky question: Is it possible to cancel the CA I signed for already existing parts?


/Tore
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#2
I'm sorry you feel this way and I wish I could talk you out of it.
You can unagree to the CA but your parts have still been released under the Creative Common Attribution license. This means that, as the copyright holder, you can pull any future version of your parts from being so licensed. The existing versions, however, will remain under the CCAL as a derivative can simply be made and then attributed back to you to fulfill the license terms. This is specifically why we chose an open source license.
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#3
I am very sad to hear this. You will be missed.

If you don't mind my asking (out of pure curiosity) what is it that aggravates you about derivative work? Are there instances where you feel that you are not being given proper attribution for your efforts?

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, I am not "trolling" or whatever it may seem, I am genuinely curious as to what usage could aggravate an author to the point of wishing he did not make his work available under an open/free license, so that I can ensure that I would not cause anything like it in the future.

Again, thank you for everything you have done for the community, you will be missed.
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#7
Jean-Philippe Ouellet Wrote:If you don't mind my asking (out of pure curiosity) what is it that aggravates you about derivative work? Are there instances where you feel that you are not being given proper attribution for your efforts?

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, I am not "trolling" or whatever it may seem, I am genuinely curious as to what usage could aggravate an author to the point of wishing he did not make his work available under an open/free license, so that I can ensure that I would not cause anything like it in the future.


In many cases, I think I even get more attribution than I "deserve". Take 3626bp01.dat for example. Yes, it is true that I made the first official version of it. But since then it has been renamed, BFC'd, improved and corrected many times, subfiled and CA certified. All these changes are totally ok with me, in this case I don't complain. But it seems a bit flattering to still give me credit as the author of that file, since probably only two lines actually are originally "mine", and they are both Type 0 lines. Smile And even those those may well in some occation have been re-typed by one of the guys modifying the file through these years.

But yet, even with some more attribution than deserved, and with these unavoidable changes mentioned above in mind, I still feel there's way too much tampering with my works. And not only my works. When J.J. just passed away, there was an almost religious respect for his works; some of his files should be included in every updated, treated as shrines. That's one extreme position. Now we're at the opposite extreme IMO. He probably has more parts with the 3626bp01.dat Syndrome, where his name occurs on the Author line, but not one single line remains of is his work. On top of that, the LSC has set standards to make his original works "illegal". For example, JJ has no username. I do have a username, but I don't want to have it on the same line - or even in the same file - as my real name for reasons I don't feel like explaining here. That makes it impossible for me to submit any parts to the PT, as this is a reason to Hold a part. The usage of a single 0 in a line, which in Original LDraw was a mandatory way to finish an LDraw file, is today "illegal, but not reason to Hold"(!) ("That does not compute!" - some early sci-fi series...) That too makes all JJ's parts and hundreds of other part files illegal according to the current LDraw standard.

Yes, I'm aware that I signed the CA. But as some may recall, I did it quite reluctantly. And when I eventually signed it, I was unaware of what was to become of LDraw. Like I said, some changes like BFC and the CA Licence had to be made. Improvements that effects the visual output are course 100% ok, too. But the other tampering with the original works has gone way too far, one by one everything can be justified but together it's just too much, and the respect for people's work is lost and can neither be upheld by a meaningless "Author" line nor the CA Agreement.

/Tore
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#8
Hi Tore,

I totally understand your frustration at some of the silly (IMO) rules that seem to be imposed on parts. But you did submit (or relicense) them voluntarily knowing a) that they were licensed under the CA and b) that the rules were evolving. This means you submitted them with the knowledge that in future things could change. I can totally understand your being annoyed at the changes, but not your desire to pull your parts.

One of the chief advantages of "copyleft" licensing (like the CA) is that it protects the sum as greater than the parts. In the case of the LDraw library this means that the library can keep growing bigger, regardless of how some of its authors people feel about it at any one time. It is protected.

But even better than that, the whole library can be forked and reworked. So you could, if you desired, start a ToreDraw library with less strict criteria than the LDraw one simply by copying across the original library and allowing additions under different rules. There have been times where I've felt tempted to do that to make a more flexible library with lower standards, but I've never quite been motivated enough. Perhaps you might be.

Anyway, I hope you do reconsider, or if not perhaps you could try using the CA to do something new. But you cannot rescind your submissions, for better or worse you've let them into the wild.

Tim
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#9
Tore,

I'm sorry to hear you feel this way. As an "end user" I'm always looking for new and improved parts and more part authors typically means more of these and fewer means less.

In some ways, I can understand the way you feel. I'm sure if I spent a lot of time working on something, only to have it ripped apart, analyzed, and re-constructed in a "better" way, I might be a little peeved as well. On the other hand, as the originator, no matter how far the design may stray from the original, they will always be in your debt for originality.

Consider the modern light-bulb. Although we consider Edison to be it's inventor, he would hardly recogonize his "own" work. The design is so far removed from the original that about the only thing we can say the two have in common is that they "provide light", in much the same way your parts "look similar" to modern ones. Yet do we consider Edison a hack, an idiot whose design was flawed in almost every concievable way? NO! We consider him a genius for his pioneering work. And no matter how far we've come or how much further we go, we'll always be thankful to him for showing us the light!

So, too, will we always be thankful to you for all the work you've done, for without it, there would have been nothing to improve upon and we would have no part at all.

I do also understand your frustration with the bureaucracy around here along with its stifling, often hypocritical rules. I am not a part of it, nor do I want to be. I'm simply a guy who likes playing with digital LEGO. I'm sorry if I've come off as "trying to talk you into coming back", but yeah, I'm just a greedy parts-mongerer. I'm sure if you asked Steffen, he'd tell you that the only thing I've ever done around here is "whine, complain, and make demands without ever contributing anything of use." You will be missed.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm theJude! So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, his Judeness, or uh, Juder, or el Juderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#4
Tore Eriksson Wrote:Please don't try to talk me into giving it yet another try.
/Tore

Be assured I won't.

w.
LEGO ergo sum
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#5
...
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Re: Terminating the CA?
#6
To the both of you: the flame war that I see on the horizon ends now. Take this off forum if you want to continue...
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