MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related


MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#1
Greetings all.  I recently got a new computer, so I had to reinstall the whole lot of programs.  It is also my first computer with Windows 10.  I am having a rather huge error with file opening/recognition.

What is happening is that files/builds are not opening and reflecting changes.  I will save changes made, and depending on how the file is opened again it won't reflect the changes made.  For example, if I right-click and "open with" for MLCad, it will not show the updates, but it may if I open MLCad and then select the recent file from the program itself.  Or if I use LDView, it won't show the saved changes, it will only show the file as it was previously.  And there is no consistency to this either, it changes what shows updated and what does not.

I am also having issues with changing the names of a file.  If I make a file named hanger5, then change it later to hanger6 because I already had a file named hanger5 in a different folder.  When I paste in the different hanger5 from the other folder it won't show that hanger5, it will only show the hanger5 that was first saved there.  I have been trying to do a "save as" through a neutral location through the desktop, but now it is telling me I am replacing a file, but it never even shows up in the Models folder.

I use MLCad to build, LDView to review and render.

I have LDraw installed in Program Files (x86).

I was having Windows Security issues when trying to paste files into the Models folder in the LDraw fold, so I had to give full access to all security settings.
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#2
(2017-05-20, 18:42)Nathan S Wrote: What is happening is that files/builds are not opening and reflecting changes.  I will save changes made, and depending on how the file is opened again it won't reflect the changes made.  For example, if I right-click and "open with" for MLCad, it will not show the updates, but it may if I open MLCad and then select the recent file from the program itself.  Or if I use LDView, it won't show the saved changes, it will only show the file as it was previously.  And there is no consistency to this either, it changes what shows updated and what does not.

This sounds like virtual store behavior. It happens to files located in program files which modern windows expects to be readonly. For backwards compatibility it stores changes to those files in another (virtual) location.

It is best to save your models into e.g. my documents.
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#3
(2017-05-20, 19:50)Roland Melkert Wrote:
(2017-05-20, 18:42)Nathan S Wrote: What is happening is that files/builds are not opening and reflecting changes.  I will save changes made, and depending on how the file is opened again it won't reflect the changes made.  For example, if I right-click and "open with" for MLCad, it will not show the updates, but it may if I open MLCad and then select the recent file from the program itself.  Or if I use LDView, it won't show the saved changes, it will only show the file as it was previously.  And there is no consistency to this either, it changes what shows updated and what does not.

This sounds like virtual store behavior. It happens to files located in program files which modern windows expects to be readonly. For backwards compatibility it stores changes to those files in another (virtual) location.

It is best to save your models into e.g. my documents.

Also, if you use LDView's LDraw library update functionality, you should install the LDraw library in somewhere other than Program Files or Program Files (x86). I personally stick it in my user folder (C:\users\travis\ldraw), and if you're the only one using the computer, that's a good place for it. If multiple people use the computer, then C:\ProgramData\ldraw is a good place for it.

Note that the technical description of exactly what is happening is somewhat complicated, but the simple answer is that when any normal program tries to write files in C:\Program Files  (x86)\ (or other protected folders), the updates get written to a location that is buried by Windows and owned by the current user. Normal programs that look at the file system see these updated files, so when you open the file from inside MLCad, you get your modified file. But Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, chose to make Windows Explorer completely ignore this mapping, so when you open the file from there, apparently you get the old unmodified version.
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#4
(2017-05-21, 4:04)Travis Cobbs Wrote:
(2017-05-20, 19:50)Roland Melkert Wrote: This sounds like virtual store behavior. It happens to files located in program files which modern windows expects to be readonly. For backwards compatibility it stores changes to those files in another (virtual) location.

It is best to save your models into e.g. my documents.

Also, if you use LDView's LDraw library update functionality, you should install the LDraw library in somewhere other than Program Files or Program Files (x86). I personally stick it in my user folder (C:\users\travis\ldraw), and if you're the only one using the computer, that's a good place for it. If multiple people use the computer, then C:\ProgramData\ldraw is a good place for it.

Note that the technical description of exactly what is happening is somewhat complicated, but the simple answer is that when any normal program tries to write files in C:\Program Files  (x86)\ (or other protected folders), the updates get written to a location that is buried by Windows and owned by the current user. Normal programs that look at the file system see these updated files, so when you open the file from inside MLCad, you get your modified file. But Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, chose to make Windows Explorer completely ignore this mapping, so when you open the file from there, apparently you get the old unmodified version.

Thank you very much, gentlemen.  I will look to move the folders.

Will I have to reinstall so that the software looks for a different "models" location so I can add sub-models, or can I change where MLCad looks for that file?  I know I can change the library location in LDraw, but I don't know about Models.
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#6
(2017-05-24, 4:43)Nathan S Wrote: Will I have to reinstall so that the software looks for a different "models" location so I can add sub-models, or can I change where MLCad looks for that file?  I know I can change the library location in LDraw, but I don't know about Models.

Nowadays it's considered to be bad to use external sub-models. I believe that all the major CAD tools (including MLCad) support MPD files for sub-models, and this is the (highly) recommended way to go, as opposed to external sub-models. Having said that, I assume that MLCad uses the LDraw library's "models" directory for sub-models, so changing its LDraw library path should also change the path to the models directory to match.
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#5
(2017-05-21, 4:04)Travis Cobbs Wrote: Note that the technical description of exactly what is happening is somewhat complicated, but the simple answer is that when any normal program tries to write files in C:\Program Files  (x86)\ (or other protected folders), the updates get written to a location that is buried by Windows and owned by the current user. Normal programs that look at the file system see these updated files, so when you open the file from inside MLCad, you get your modified file. But Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, chose to make Windows Explorer completely ignore this mapping, so when you open the file from there, apparently you get the old unmodified version.

Doesn't the AIOI install parts and models into My Documents by default, lately?

Mike
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#7
(2017-05-24, 4:49)Michael Horvath Wrote: Doesn't the AIOI install parts and models into My Documents by default, lately?

C:\Users\<User>\Documents\LDraw\Models
LEGO ergo sum
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RE: MAJOR program issues -- maybe Windows related
#8
All is well, I was able to move everything and keep it all correct.  Thank you.
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