Alignment of part 60616

[Ben Supnik]

Hi Y'all,

I found this comment in the latest unofficial version of 60616.

0 !HELP To place the glass on 30179.dat, have it -32LDU on the X-axis
0 !HELP relative to the door to place it correctly.
0 !HELP Stud is at 57,70,3.75/-3.75

But from what I can tell, to place the part in the newer frame (60596) I need a 5 LDU Z offset. For the older frame (30179) the holes aren't drawn in and I don't have the real part to examine.

Is the help tip wrong? Am I wrong in my estimated alignment? And...is it possible that the part will change its origin before it is made official? (If I have read the tracker properly, the part has one yes vote and just needs a few more votes.)

Cheers
Ben

[Max Martin Richter]

Indeed, I think I moved the origin to match the frame directly...
Only thing that needs to discussed is the origin now. Should I move it to the y of the studs or should I simply remove the first two help lines. (I prefer the second one)

/Max

[Chris Dee]

I'm OK with subparts having their origin outside of the physical structure, but do we have a precedent for doing this for parts?

[Philippe Hurbain]

Yes, many parts are done this way, such as many window glasses (eg. 4036). I highly prefer a part with origin outside bounding box if it simplifies placement...

[Ben Supnik]

Hi Max,

Wait - I think the part is perfectly aligned, but it _does_ need a help tip - but a different help tip. The part appears to require a 32 LDU X offset (as documented in the current part) but then 5 LDU Z offset to align properly.

So I think the help tip just needs to be updated, not reviewed.

Chris: I think the origin is as good as it can be - X and Z are determined by the door's natural rotation, and Y aligns with the modern 1x4x6 frame without offset. (From what I have seen, this is better than past doors, where X and Z are defined by rotation and Y is defined by the door itself, requiring an unnecessary vertical adjustment relative to the frame.)

Reviewers - any chance of getting the 60616 part series re-reviewed if someone can mod the help instructions? I think it's the only "filling" we're missing for the 1x4x6 frame.

Chris: I applied for part authorship a while ago but didn't get a response - should I just resubmit the form?

Cheers
Ben

[Michael Heidemann]

I agree with Philo, if the parts are used only in conjunction with the main part that has a proper origin.

[Max Martin Richter]

Hej Ben,
yes indeed. I was in hurry in the morning.
I would say I have to add: "...and 5LDU on the Z-axis..." to the help section.
If this is confirmed, I'll do this ASAP. If someone feels, that he want to do this by himself. Please feel free.
(I'm happy to get as much free time as I can for preparing some things for university)

/Max

[Ben Supnik]

Hi Max,

I'm sorry that I lost track of this thread - I just went back and I can _confirm_ that adding "5 LDU on the Z axis" does correct the help tip to make the part align to the 1x4x6 frame.

I'm sorry, but I can't mod the part myself - I don't have a login to the part tracker.

Thanks!
Ben

[Chris Dee]

All you need to do is read and affirm the Contributor Agreement, then send me an email containing:
1) your true first and last names,
2) your LDraw username,
3) the statement "I accept the LDraw.org Contributor Agreement with regards to all past and future contributions I make to LDraw.org".

Then I can set you up to be able to submit to the Parts Tracker.

[Max Martin Richter]

If you have a login, feel free to change this. ;-) If you don't want to do it, please let me know.
/Max

[Ben Supnik]

Doing it now! I think I did this before, but left part 3 off. :-(

[Magnus Forsberg]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that this Help-info gives the correct position.
There are two different door frames, 30179 and 60596 and they seem to have the hole in different positions.

60596:
has two holes at: x=+/-32, z=+5

30179:
has four holes at x=+/-32, z=+/-6

Please have a look at this setup in LDView:

Code:

1 47 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 30179.dat
1 4 -32 0 6 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 60616a.dat

1 47 0 0 40 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 60596.dat
1 4 -32 0 45 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 60616a.dat

The door can't be placed at x=5 in 30179. The hinges and the plint would be placed inside the frame structure.

[Ben Supnik]

Hi Magnus,

You are correct that the "fixed" help tip is only correct for 60596, and that 30179 is almost certainly different.

I cannot verify whether the offsets you posted are correct for 30179 - I don't own the physical part and the LDraw version doesn't have the holes drawn in.

As a side note, I hope we can someday get this part certified - as a 3-d model it's been fine for quite a while, with all of the latest revisions only focusing on the help tip.

Cheers
ben