LDCad 1.2a (win+linux)

[Roland Melkert]

Hello All,

I've found some semi serious bugs in the 1.2 version, so I've decided to release a bugfix only update.

So no new features only bugfixes in this one.


You can also keep an eye on my LDCad youtube channel playlist. It features tutorial and demonstrations, I will try to add clips to it now and then. If you would like something demonstrated etc just ask.


You'll find all available versions at the usual place:
LDCad home page

Any questions and suggestions are welcome.

[Michael Horvath]

Looks great! Will give it a shot when I get back home on Monday.

[Michael Horvath]

Could you add an option to lock the y axis so that it always stays upright when moving the camera? Thanks.

[edit]

LDView's Lat. / Long. option would be excellent as well.

[Michael Horvath]

I'm trying to work on Datsville's "layer_streets.ldr" and the frame rate is very low. I guess my specs are not up to it. Moving the camera is very erratic. Small motions translate to large movements, and there is a considerable delay. Even the menus are very unresponsive.

Is there a way I can select the angle of 3D view? "Top-left quadrant" maybe?

[edit]

Repacing the bricks with Tore's "boxes" significantly speeds up rendering, but it turns everything red. Not sure what is happening here.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp292...aac44a.png

[Roland Melkert]

Actually the streets layer has about two thirds of the total datsville brick count if I remember correctly

The red crosses are 'file not found' indications. You can add additional search path to LDCad's config using prefs/LDraw/search...

You could also try playing with some of the rendering options in the same LDraw menu. For example turning off edges might help with the large models.

edit: using stipple transparency instead of alpha blending is probably the biggest save, because it's might become very cpu intensive if there are a lot of transparent parts in a model.

[Roland Melkert]

That shouldn't be to hard to implement, in the meantime you could also use the little arrow icons on the compass' grid those allow for single direction movement.

[Michael Horvath]

OK, I will try those settings.

However, I added "D:\LDraw\parts\b\" as a search path and the custom parts are still not showing up. These are Tore's "boxed" parts and they are in the "b" sub-directory. How do I set these up?

[Roland Melkert]

Strange, I believe the boxed versions are referenced including the 'b\' so they should work without any additional paths when placed in the parts folder. Did you restart LDCad? cause it only scans for new/updated parts on startup.

Can I download the boxed version somewhere in order to check if this is a bug ?

[Michael Horvath]

I've attached the model as well as the boxes themselves. Thanks!!

[edit]

Never mind! It was my fault. The boxes were referencing a part that no longer exists.

[Roland Melkert]

Ah I see what's going on, it references "box.box" which isn't present in the boxes lib. You need to rename box.dat to box.box. there might be more misnamed items.

It then loads find the next time you start LDCad.

Anyway this is not an LDCad bug

[Michael Horvath]

I did the opposite. I changed all the calls to box.box to box.dat.

Anyway, the performance is much improved after replacing the parts with boxes! I now get 2-3 fps when viewing the model in LDCad.

Thanks so much! I can't wait for the improved camera controls!!


Mike

[Roland Melkert]

I can't wait for the improved camera controls!!

I'll going to add something to the compass for this, but it will take sometime before it's in a release, I'm concentrating on spring and (mini)figure generation at the moment.

[Michael Horvath]

Could you maybe make a video tutorial showing how to use the compass? I still am not sure how camera rotation works using it. Thanks.

[Roland Melkert]

Rotation inside the compass or main editing view works using a so called tracking ball. You could imagine it like a big beach-ball that fits in the window. When you click the mouse somewhere and keep it down it's like you grab the ball and pull on it in the movement direction.

This kind of rotation interaction is very different to basic y/x rotation (like e.g. LDView uses), but imho it's much more user friendly (once you get used to it).

As for a tutorial, in the 'basic editing 2' and 'pneumatic demo' is use the compass quite a lot. I would like to make a better demo but the capture software I'm using doesn't record keyboard activity, so it very hard to show non mouse only interaction.

As for basic movement, you can use the arrow icons on the compass grid or use shift+move (relative to the projection), of shift+ctrl+move (relative to the editingplane/grid).

Also you can use the zoom to cursor behavior to move to another place by first zooming out and then zoom in again pointing at the generic place you want to be.

Third way to skip around is using 'c' on a selection, which centers the view on it.

Also zooming in the compass is somewhat different, it will ignore the zoom to cursor option (and thus leave the lookat point unchanged)

Personally I like to use: zoom out, select, 'c', zoom in using the compass.

Hope this helps.

[Michael Horvath]

It would be cool to be able to grab one of the axes in the compass and rotate only around that axis. Or something.

Also, are there keyboard controls for panning and rotating the camera? I really miss those!

[edit]

Could you add an option to turn off smooth lighting? It is very important that I be able to see every triangle.

[Roland Melkert]

Grabbing the axis seems like a decent way to do this, I'll note it in my todo list.

You can already turnoff smoothing, but it will only be applied on parts loaded afterwards. You do this in the prefs/LDraw menu using the 'vertex processing' item. Click on it until it says 'minimal'.

[Michael Horvath]

Thanks.

Also, I added edge lines to the attached model, but they are not showing up in LDCad. Is there a setting I need to turn on?

[Roland Melkert]

The type 2 lines makes the file a part, and parts are handled slightly different in LDCad.

The lines will show up when you use the file from another ldr.

Also using type 2 lines will break smoothing of the surface (if enabled) cause type 2 lines indicate a 'sharp' edge.

[Michael Horvath]

I've loaded it inside another model and the lines still don't show up. Here's a screenshot also showing the settings I am using.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp292...7bc8a9.png

[Roland Melkert]

Do you see purple edges when you go over it with the mouse?

Edges are only drawn up to al certain distance, so with models this big you will only see them when you are very close up. This is to prevent all gray models because of far away edges bleeding together.

you can override this by increasing the 'edgesVisibilityFactor' option in the main.cfg file, but I don't recommend it (performance wise).

You probably better of by using a stand in version of the landscape using two alternating poly colors (like in the povray renderings)

[Michael Horvath]

Do you see purple edges when you go over it with the mouse?

Edges are only drawn up to al certain distance, so with models this big you will only see them when you are very close up. This is to prevent all gray models because of far away edges bleeding together.

They don't seem to show up however close I am to the model.

you can override this by increasing the 'edgesVisibilityFactor' option in the main.cfg file, but I don't recommend it (performance wise).

Where is main.cfg located? I only see LDCad.cfg in the program directory.

You probably better of by using a stand in version of the landscape using two alternating poly colors (like in the povray renderings)

That is an excellent idea! Do you know how I might accomplish this? There are way too many polygons to do this by hand.

Thanks!!


Mike

[Roland Melkert]

Not even the purple 'hot' indication?


main.cfg is located outside program files as per MS guidelines.

It's usually something like:

C:\Users\Roland\AppData\Roaming\LDCad\config\main.cfg

replace ''roland' with your windows user name.


As for the mixed color landscape, doesn't the generator offer this option?

If not writing some post processing script shouldn't be to hard. Replacing the first 16 of each line starting with 3 with e.g. alternating 1 and 4. Or alternate per 2 lines to form quads. This assuming the generator wrote in a row/col or col/row manner.

[Michael Horvath]

Not even the purple 'hot' indication?

OK, I had changed the "Selection Indication" setting by mistake. I can see them now.

main.cfg is located outside program files as per MS guidelines.

It's usually something like:

C:\Users\Roland\AppData\Roaming\LDCad\config\main.cfg

replace ''roland' with your windows user name.

Thanks. Problem is, whether or not the edges appear depends on the distance of the camera from the /center/ of the part as opposed to the nearest polygon. Which can be quite large if I am focusing on a distant piece of landscaping.

As for the mixed color landscape, doesn't the generator offer this option?

I am using about a half dozen tools. Are you referring to any one in particular? The output generally doesn't have any materials at all until I assign one in MLCAD.

If not writing some post processing script shouldn't be to hard. Replacing the first 16 of each line starting with 3 with e.g. alternating 1 and 4. Or alternate per 2 lines to form quads. This assuming the generator wrote in a row/col or col/row manner.

I'm not much of a programmer unfortunately. Can one of the LETGUI tools do this?

[edit]

I tried setting edgesVisibilityFactor to 100 but the program seems to be reverting my changes each time it starts.

[Michael Horvath]

FYI, somehow my LDCad installation got borked. The program would only load in a tiny window in the top-left portion of the screen, and would not function properly after maximizing. I should have taken screenshots or a video.

All is well now after deleting "AppData\Roaming\LDCad" and re-installing the program. The edge lines show up now like they should.

[Michael Horvath]

A couple of observations:

1. I wish you had retained LEdit/MLCAD's part movement commands. For large models like Datsville the on-screen controls are too sluggish/unresponsive to be really useful.
2. I think you should map the middle mouse button to panning the camera. The Selection Properties menu is already accessible from the right-click menu which is already pretty convenient IMO.
3. Is there a way to switch to a "camera movement only" mode where dragging the mouse across the screen does _not_ move the selected part?
4. The part bounding boxes seem to be exaggerated a bit. I.e. they're slightly larger than the actual part. This is a little confusing when trying to align parts next to each other. Is there a way to make the bounding match the part's contours exactly?

[Roland Melkert]

Strange, I do know of a minor issue resulting in a tiny window (closing the app from the taskbar while it's not active) but it shouldn't need a reinstall.

Also you don't need to reinstall after a deletion of the roaming files. The default situation will be recreated the next time you start the program.

[Roland Melkert]

I'm not much of a programmer unfortunately. Can one of the LETGUI tools do this?

I don't know, maybe one of the script wizards on this board can whip something up for you.

I tried setting edgesVisibilityFactor to 100 but the program seems to be reverting my changes each time it starts.

I don't remember putting limits on the value, I'll have to check this might be bug.

[Michael Horvath]

I don't remember putting limits on the value, I'll have to check this might be bug.

It's working OK now, so I don't think it's a bug.

[Roland Melkert]

1. I wish you had retained LEdit/MLCAD's part movement commands. For large models like Datsville the on-screen controls are too sluggish/unresponsive to be really useful.

Moving parts using the keyboard is posible, but you need to set the editing pin in the correct mode. By default it's a rotation tool. Using the arrow keys while rotate on step. When set to move the arrow keys will move the selection by one step. You can also use the manual input dialogs (located in the menu bar) for setting exact location/rotation for the selection. Or use the seleciton propery dialog (click on coord panel or enter key)

2. I think you should map the middle mouse button to panning the camera. The Selection Properties menu is already accessible from the right-click menu which is already pretty convenient IMO.

The middle button currently opens a (property)dialog associated with the selection or gui item below the mouse. But you are right panning etc could use some extra attention, I will try to improve general camera interaction in the 1.3 version.

3. Is there a way to switch to a "camera movement only" mode where dragging the mouse across the screen does _not_ move the selected part?

There is a view mode (menu: model/model interaction), but it still uses a rotation dominant interaction.

4. The part bounding boxes seem to be exaggerated a bit. I.e. they're slightly larger than the actual part. This is a little confusing when trying to align parts next to each other. Is there a way to make the bounding match the part's contours exactly?

Yes they use a small margin in both perspective and ortho mode. I could make that optional in a future version.

[Michael Horvath]

Are there hotkeys to control the "pin"? I would like to be able to switch between translation and rotation with just a key press.

I want to avoid using the mouse as much as possible.

Mike

[edit]

Also is there a way to get a list of parts and select parts using the list like in MLCAD?

[Roland Melkert]

You can use 'm' and 'r' to change the pin mode to 'move' or 'rotate'.

List of used parts can be viewed using the two last items in the overview group (same location as the 'all models' group). They show the (recursive) unique parts in the current model or step. I'm not sure this is what you mean though.

[Michael Horvath]

No, I meant the Model Part List as seen in the MLCAD help files:

MLCad_V3.40/Help/English/default.htm

The pane top, rigfht containing a list of text, keeps information about the parts and commands used in the model you are working with. The list is in processing order. That means: During viewing mode the program goes through this list from top to bottom, like executing it line by line. Here you can select, copy and delete parts, as well as changing the execution order.
See "view mode" for more information about this list.

[Roland Melkert]

O the source panel. LDCad doesn't have such a panel at the moment.

At one point I wanted to add something similar, but I kept pushing it back in favor of other features. I might still add it someday though.

[Michael Horvath]

That's fine, thanks.

[Michael Horvath]

I also noticed that you cannot start LDCad by dropping a file on its shortcut, by supplying the name of a file as a command line argument, or by right clicking on a model file and selecting "Open with' in File Explorer. This is a major convenience in Windows (but not Linux AFAIK). I hope to see this feature in a future version.


Mike

[Roland Melkert]

I'm probably adding this to 1.3, it's no big deal in Windows but I have zero experience setting it (file association) up in Linux.

Because I want to keep the versions identical I didn't add the feature to the Windows version ether.

[Travis Cobbs]

Note that in Windows, if you don't do things just right, it will work as Michael describes, but not in the Windows 7 Start Menu itself (where there is a menu attached to the right of the button for programs that have opened files). I suspect that Windows 8 may have some comparable feature on its Start Screen, and I would guess that if the file associations aren't set up enough to work for the Windows 7 Start Menu, they also won't work for the Windows 8 Start Screen.

[Roland Melkert]

Thanks,

I'll keep an eye on that.

[Michael Horvath]

How do you add an existing sub-model to a model? In MLCAD I usually do "Add>Part>Custom Part>Browse".

Also, I do not want to create an MPD.

Thanks!

[Michael Heidemann]

For showing a submodel in a model, just reference to that part. So you have a linetype 1 line in your code.
In this case you need to ship two files to the guys that should see all the beautiful models.
If you want to have all in one file you have two possibilities. MPD file is not what you want, so the only possibility in that case is inlining of the submodel. We discussed "inlining" already.

Hope this helps.

[Michael Horvath]

OK, somehow my installation got messed up again. Now when I try and load a model all I see is a yellow cross in the center of the screen. Are there log files somewhere that I might post? Do you need a screenshot?

[edit]

This was somehow due to my setting my working directory as one of LDCad's library paths. I removed this directory, and the models now load properly. Can you explain why this is the case?

[Michael Horvath]

For showing a submodel in a model, just reference to that part. So you have a linetype 1 line in your code.
In this case you need to ship two files to the guys that should see all the beautiful models.

How do I do this in LDCad? Which menus and commands?

If you want to have all in one file you have two possibilities. MPD file is not what you want, so the only possibility in that case is inlining of the submodel. We discussed "inlining" already.

No, I don't want this.

[Michael Heidemann]

Code:

How do I do this in LDCad? Which menus and commands?

That is a good question. I can only find the possibility to add files from the library.

[Roland Melkert]

How do you add an existing sub-model to a model? In MLCAD I usually do "Add>Part>Custom Part>Browse".

Also, I do not want to create an MPD.

Thanks!

You can reference any model just like normal parts, Just open both models into LDCad. Afterwards you open the 'all models' part bin group (sub of the 'bulldozer' picture in the bin root). From there you can drag the model like any normal part insertion activity.

LDCad will complain about resolving issues if the submodel isn't in the same folder as the target model. But otherwise it won't care if it's an normal ldr, a part or a mpd.

[Roland Melkert]

Yellow cross means render preparation error, I need the log to see what happened there.

You'll find the last three log in the logs folder. The locations differs on Windows, it's at the same place the config and examples files are stored. Usually this is 'C:\Users\userName\AppData\Roaming\LDCad'. If you using the Linux or archive version it's in the same place as the main executable.

[Michael Heidemann]

Ok, got it - thanks.

I think it would be more user friendly if there is the possibility to just add a file by menu command. The way you discribes is not very intuitive I think. There are at least two people that did not find that solution.

[Roland Melkert]

Yes, I think the main problem is the root part bin group pictures kinda suck

But you are right adding a right click menu option wouldn't hurt ether.

Also in my 1.3 dev version I've added file drop, which will offer to ether open the file or add it as a reference to the current model.

[Roland Melkert]

I don't need the log afterall, I know what's going wrong.

Any file in a library location, which has unknown content (missing meta) is assumed to be a part. This means the whole file will be flattened in the render preparation stage, with a model this causes a HUGE mesh which could lead to very long loading times or even crashes due to out of memory stuff etc, so when a large mesh is detected it will be canceled leading to the yellow cross.

Anyhow this all is because my render need to differentiate between parts and models.

[Michael Horvath]

Which metadata is needed in particular?

[Michael Horvath]

1. I frequently work on the same model in multiple editors simultaneously. Therefore it would be nice to have a "Reload" command in LDCad to update the model to its latest version.

Thanks!