Part 3958 in the "new" version w/ pins on the underside?

[Drawer]

Hi dear community, 

I'm absolutely new here, but I have done several hours of research. I've searched the entire forum, read up on Bricklink and LDraw. And I think this is the right place for my question.

I'm currently working on a project in Studio by Bricklink. I'm using various 6x6 plates for this. It's number 3958, and I noticed that the back of the plate doesn't correspond to the current version at all. All the little pin holes that are now available are missing on the back of the base. Or have they always been there?

In any case, I absolutely need these small holes for my LEGO model. I have to insert round 1x1 items in the corners. I have attached two pictures so that you know what I mean. However, I can't find these 1x1 pins anywhere either. Maybe someone knows the number? (Please do not mistake this part for 4073. There is a small pin on the side that cannot be seen in the picture.)

I know I should probably ask this question somewhere else, but if this part possibly doesn't exist yet, then I would be happy if this could be added too.

I have also looked into CAD programs, but I don't have the time at the moment.

And unfortunately I don't know how deep the holes need to be and what diameter they need to be.

I would be very grateful if someone could help me. Maybe I'm wrong and both parts already exist. I can't finish the project if I can't find a solution. That would be a real shame, because I have already invested several hours in the project.

   
   

In the transparent version, the small holes can also be seen here: 3958 Trans-Yellow

Here you can see that the holes in Studio are missing:
   

[Rene Rechthaler]

What do you need these small holes for? The pins and studs are intended to fit without these...
normally, these are left out to keep the file site and polygon count (for rendering) low.
But you can add them back. (or ask us for a custom version)
this also exists: 85861

[N. W. Perry]

The high-definition parts created by J. C. Tchang include these underside details; you can download them here:
https://jc-tchang.philohome.com/manuel/part_hd.htm

(Direct link to ZIP file: https://jc-tchang.philohome.com/manuel/I...rts_hd.zip)

Look for part 3958h.dat.

[Chris Böhnke]

Those "pin holes" are actually there to prevent the top studs from sinking in due to the molding process.

They have always been there, at least since about the early 60s, which predates the 6x6 plate by several years.

It's a detail that is usually never modelled in LDraw and can usually be found on every "full solid" stud. The few parts where the hole is missing on the real part did happen because it can not be molded there (like on 4864a). The sole purpose behind the shift to hollow studs on this part was to "fix" the issue with studs caving in.

Though I am really curious what you need these holes for. As far as I am aware, the can not connect to anything. Just for greebling or something?

EDIT:
Are you looking for this part: 20482?
https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/cat...und%5D#T=C

I don't think this fits the underside holes.

EDIT 2:
Or this one: 32828?
https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/cat...Bar%5D#T=C

[Gerald Lasser]

Hello,


As Chris wrote these are meant to preserve the shape during the moulding process to prevent extensive cooling time and sunken surfaces.

These are also not present on digital models directly from LEGO, you can see even product shots that don't have them, i.e. those are renders.

I'm currently working on a project in Studio by Bricklink. I'm using various 6x6 plates for this. It's number 3958, and I noticed that the back of the plate doesn't correspond to the current version at all. All the little pin holes that are now available are missing on the back of the base. Or have they always been there?

In any case, I absolutely need these small holes for my LEGO model. I have to insert round 1x1 items in the corners. I have attached two pictures so that you know what I mean. However, I can't find these 1x1 pins anywhere either. Maybe someone knows the number? (Please do not mistake this part for 4073. There is a small pin on the side that cannot be seen in the picture.)

My first question would be, wich LEGO part do you want to fit there?

- These pockets have a diameter of around 6 LDU (2,4mm)
- There is no counterpart in the LEGO system having a 6 LDU cylinder.
- all bars to have an 8 LDU (3,2mm) diameter.
- although people come up with creative ways to connect parts, I haven'T come across something that really fits there.

A completely different issue would be the pockets in the underside studs (we call them stud3) e.g. in the 1x4 brick, which havea 4 LDU diameter which can fit e.g. hair decoration elements that have the very small pin.

summary:
- Those pockets are never modeled as they do not serve any connection purpose in the system
- Please post a picture of the part you intend to insert there


thanks

[N. W. Perry]

Just to add another perspective, I do think there is something to be said for pure visual appearance, regardless of functionality. A part like this does look quite different with these holes than without, and occasionally you will find an official build where the underside of some part is visible and perhaps even has an aesthetic purpose. I do frequently use the HD parts when this is the case.

This isn't exactly what the OP is asking for here, and I'm not suggesting that these details be modeled into official parts necessarily. But I do think it's worth at least recognizing the aesthetics as much as the functionality when thinking about how the LDraw library serves its users.

(My personal idea is that this is something that could exist as a kind of metadata within or attached to parts files, as part of my imagined, future LDraw 2.0 specification…)

[Gerald Lasser]

... A part like this does look quite different with these holes than without, and occasionally you will find an official build where the underside of some part is visible and perhaps even has an aesthetic purpose... 

Here is an official LEGO Render which does not include those holes, although the underside takes up a very large portion of the pic
https://img.bricklink.com/ItemImage/SN/0/76410-1.png

Even Mecabricks is not modeling then, although his parts include a lot of molding artefacts

[N. W. Perry]

Here is an official LEGO Render which does not include those holes, although the underside takes up a very large portion of the pic
https://img.bricklink.com/ItemImage/SN/0/76410-1.png

Even Mecabricks is not modeling then, although his parts include a lot of molding artefacts

Yup, and then here's one of mine that does include the hole—a single, tiny part, but undoubtedly an aesthetic difference given the element's purely decorative use:
   

[Drawer]

Hi dear ones, thank you so much for your numerous answers, reactions and help. I really appreciate your time and effort and must admit that I'm a little overwhelmed by the commitment you have shown. I'm completely new here and did not expect to receive an answer to my questions so quickly. But I also feel like the dumbest idiot and feel guilty for stealing your time. I made a gross mistake, simply because I wasn't paying enough attention. I misled you with my post. Thank you for pointing out that those holes on the back have always existed and they are simply for stability. I haven't been involved with LEGO for almost twenty years and don't own many bricks at the moment. But now I was able to find one of these plates in my house. And thanks for pointing out that these holes are never included in the renderings. I thought they actually had a function. And that's because I misunderstood something. In the following picture, I overlooked the fact that the pins outlined in yellow (20482) are only used twice. I overlooked the other eight 1x1 pins (85861) outlined in green. I thought that all ten together were the 20482 pins. And I also thought that exactly these pins belong in the corners of the back of the 6x6 plate. But they are actually the 85861 pins. So the holes are not needed at all.

   

First of all, I can now summarize that I obviously do not need a new part that does not yet exist. it's the 6x6 plate as it already exists in the database. Thanks also for the links to the high-resolution renderings. I really appreciate that. Thanks also for pointing out this part 20482 with the pin. it's exactly that part. (It's also outlined in yellow in the picture). Thanks also for the dimensions of the tiny holes. I can't believe the knowledge you all have!

—

The project is about a Pokéball. I built the complete model in Studio. But there's one point where I'm failing and despairing. There are two halves that need to be built. They are almost identical. At the end, both hemispheres are joined together. Elements 85861 are used to increase the stability of the side walls. These can be seen in black and light blue in the following picture.

   

Here you can see how the sides of the half-sphere are added:

   

So you can see that it's possible to build this model in real life. But when I build the model in Studio, I get error messages or I can't put the parts together at all. In the following image you can see one half of the Pokéball at the top left. The two side walls are already attached. The back and the front have not yet been added. You can also see in the top right of the picture that everything fits perfectly. So far so good. At the bottom left of the image you can see what happens when I add the back and at the bottom right when the front has also been added. And then at the latest it no longer works. And it's really not because I've built anything differently from the pictures of the real model. it's a 1:1 3D copy of the real ball. Does anyone have an explanation as to why I fail in Studio but can build the model in real life without any issues?

I apologize again to you all for stealing your time and making you think about things for nothing. That really wasn't my intention. And I absolutely understand if my current question has no place here. So if you don't want to answer this question because it's in the wrong section of the forum, I'll be happy to ask it somewhere else. Those are the rules of a forum. And everything should be kept neatly organized here. Thanks again! Really appreciate your help!!!

   
   

[Orion Pobursky]

No need to apologize. You're not "wasting" our time and there are no dumb questions.

[Chris Böhnke]

Can you upload the .io model file from Studio?

It's probably easier telling the issue that way.

[Drawer]

Can you upload the .io model file from Studio?

It's probably easier telling the issue that way.

Of course! With pleasure!   


  lego-pokeball-ldraw.io.zip (Size: 238.41 KB / Downloads: 1)

[Drawer]

No need to apologize. You're not "wasting" our time and there are no dumb questions.

Thanks so much for your understanding. 

[Chris Böhnke]

Of course! With pleasure!   

I assume the issue was that the medium blue bricks were turned the wrong side. Flipping them solves the collision:
   

At least unless the flipping will cause another issue  

Added a corrected version.

br Chris

[Drawer]

I assume the issue was that the medium blue bricks were turned the wrong side. Flipping them solves the collision:


At least unless the flipping will cause another issue  

Added a corrected version.

br Chris

Ok, until just now I thought I was the stupidest person on the planet. Now I know that I am!  Oh my God, how can I be so slow on the uptake. Damn.  Thank you so much, Chris. It means the world to me.  Now I can finish the project in Studio. 

In future, I will try to focus and concentrate much more, I promise! 

This ball is supposed to be a present for my nephew, but it's not available to buy as a set. That's why I came up with the idea of rebuilding it in Studio and buying him the bricks as well as creating a real instruction manual in LEGO design. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

   

[Chris Böhnke]

Glad to help