Duplo parts with hinge AND rotation snap

[Peter Blomberg]

Official part 13358 Duplo Brick  2 x  2 Hinge Base
Unofficial part 13355 Duplo Plate  2 x  2 with Hinge Extended on Side
Unofficial part 25548 Duplo Plate  4 x  4 with Hinge Extended on Side

These parts have both a hinge and a rotational snap. Part 13358 has its origin at the top of the snapping hole, i.e. not at the center of the hinge.

Similarly, a large number of hinges have their origin at the centre of the topmost stud group and not at the hinge. E.g. 92582, 3640, 60471, 44568, 3597, and 30383. These are not following the current requirement of having the point of origin at the centre of the hinge.

Understandably, an origin at a hinge makes placement and rotation around that hinge easier. However, the three parts under scrutiny also have an another rotational axis. The question is now; which rotational axis is primary and which secondary for these three parts? The build order is AFAIK exclusively so that the rotational snap comes first (even if not used) and only then are parts added to the hinge.

What happens in the editor if hinge counterparts have different origin? Can the second part with origin at the hinge still be placed nicely? What about placing the first part if the origin is offset on the side at a different elevation than the studs/antistuds?

[Willy Tschager]

As already stated at the PT I'd go with the hinge for consistency with other hinge plates. The order in BI is irrelevant; what counts is the overall building experience which IMHO is better served with the origin at the center of the hinge.

w.

[Peter Blomberg]

As already stated at the PT I'd go with the hinge for consistency with other hinge plates. The order in BI is irrelevant; what counts is the overall building experience which IMHO is better served with the origin at the center of the hinge.

w.

Thanks Willy, we are now seeking that second opinion as you suggested. Btw, we mean the same thing, just using different words. To be clear, I strongly prefer using the origin of the bottom part to adjust the rotation around the vertical axis and then use the origin of the top part to set the horizontal hinge angle, both in physical and computational building.

[Gerald Lasser]

...

What happens in the editor if hinge counterparts have different origin? Can the second part with origin at the hinge still be placed nicely? What about placing the first part if the origin is offset on the side at a different elevation than the studs/antistuds?

I usually build a sub-part with the second hinge-part being at the origin of the hinge axle at 0/0/0, that makes the rotation of the hinge much easier

[Chris Böhnke]

As already stated at the PT I'd go with the hinge for consistency with other hinge plates. The order in BI is irrelevant; what counts is the overall building experience which IMHO is better served with the origin at the center of the hinge.

w.

I tend to agree.

Maybe this could need a few images, to better illustrate the issue?

If a part has multiple hinge connections, a !HELP line would probably be a good start. Not sure though, if there are some odd cases which break a given rule anyways.

[Willy Tschager]

Maybe this could need a few images, to better illustrate the issue?

Good point. I'd like to see the origin here:

   
13355

   
25548

   
16686

[Rene Rechthaler]

As of now there are two similar Duplo Hinge bases:
13358 Duplo Brick  2 x  2 Hinge Base (with the hinge on top), Origin at the top of the snap

15450 Duplo Crane Base  2 x  2 with Hook Holder (also has a snap hole like 13358, but the origin is at the bottom)
We should still synchronize the origin there, I prefer at the bottom of the part like 15450 (connection of snap and studs)
We could still add a !HELP with the connection info (hinge position)

All other parts who connect there should have the origin at the hinge...
parts I found:
24156 Duplo Arm  3L (correct, could need a !HELP for the other hinge)
13359 Duplo Train Crossing Gate Crossbar (correct)
15449 Duplo Hook (correct)
3574 Duplo Plate  2 x  8 Seesaw (correct)


some parts which arent done yet, but still belong to this hinge family:
13341 Duplo Crane Arm 5L
13366 Duplo Winch Drum
19663 Duplo Ladder with 7 Rung with Locking Ring
19443 Duplo Ladder Long with Locking Ring and Drum Narrow Ridged Holder
19451 Duplo Crane Basket with Locking Ring
17178 Duplo Cannon

[Gerald Lasser]

I would leave the origin of 13358 and 15450 where it is. doesn't follow the same intention, but I am against creating a B-version just for the sake of it.

I, however strongly advocate for a !HELP linestating the additional hinge point and even add a part in the !HELP line.

The others shoudl follow the hinge point.

I mean if we look at the system parts, they are all on stud level and lack a !HELP line as well, e.g. all the balljoints, towballs, bars, clip

[Magnus Forsberg]

I would leave the origin of 13358 and 15450 where it is. doesn't follow the same intention, but I am against creating a B-version just for the sake of it.

I, however strongly advocate for a !HELP linestating the additional hinge point and even add a part in the !HELP line.

The others shoudl follow the hinge point.

I mean if we look at the system parts, they are all on stud level and lack a !HELP line as well, e.g. all the balljoints, towballs, bars, clip

I agree on 15450.
13358 is IMO wrong. Should have had the origin at base. But let's leave it. At least it's in the rotation center.
13355 and 25548 is correct. Both are designed to swivel around the pin on 92005. Right?


One basic rule is applicable. No studs = origin at bottom. Studs = origin on top stud level.
The tipper buckets have some studs, but "playabillity" is better if the origin is in the hinge point.

[Rene Rechthaler]

yes, I also think 13355 and 25548 are correct, because they are mostly "static", and if not, they rotate around the snap pin.
But all of them could need a !Help with the position of the hinge.
Should 13355 and 25548 get subparted more to include the difference to 65084 and 65085 (the small red dots)?

[Peter Blomberg]

yes, I also think 13355 and 25548 are correct, because they are mostly "static", and if not, they rotate around the snap pin.
But all of them could need a !Help with the position of the hinge.
Should 13355 and 25548 get subparted more to include the difference to 65084 and 65085 (the small red dots)?

I didn't have those parts with red gaskets. If you do, please make the 65084 and 65085. You may change 13355 and 25548 as needed.