Chris Dee Wrote:
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> Most of those assembly Parts folder files, like
> the motorcycle+rider are anachronistic and
> probably would not be included if they were
> suggested today.
A great fortune they did make it there in time then!
> We did reject the inclusion of
> the minifig-scale destroyer droid, IIRC.
That's really bad. It would be very handy to have in the Parts folder where it belongs..
> Backward compatibilty, and all that, means we
> can't really delete them.
That is in deed very good news!
> I suppose they could be moved to
> Models, as "usage examples", like car.dat and
> pyramid.dat.
I suppose not!
> So, I'm not sure you should define any algorithm
> that allows models to exist in the Parts folder.
Shortcuts could techically be called "models", but from my POV they are much closer to be treated as parts than models, even though they really are neither.
> Personally, I'm very worried about the proposed
> fuzzy logic. It's that kind of vague header
> formatting that convinced us (well me at least) to
> formalise the Parts file header as you see it
> today. This means that the format can be
> programmatically checked - and other tools can
> rely on the defined semantics.
I think you worry too much.
Let's keep those two things separate:
A. Shortcuts in the Parts folder are already formally defined
0 !LDRAW_ORG Shortcut UPDATE 2010-02 (30187c03.dat)
From the software's POV, it should be treated as a model.
But as an LDraw user, I DON'T want it on my own private workspace, ie the Models folder. No way!
B. I made the mistake to have no header at all in some of my boxed parts. This has been no problems with the software I've used so far, but Roland has made me aware that it may cause problems in some cases, like his new editor.
How do we address issue B? (Issue A is a non-issue IMO) The bad, really bad way would be a new, over-formalized Standard that you force us poor users to obey, or else we will encounter endless warnings and errors. Of course it will render all previously made models illegal, like DAT-Header now signals 'Hold' for all parts ending with the previouly compulsary "0" line. (Oh, stupidivity of stupidivities!) Now, where was I? I don't mind a new syntax, like "0 !PRIVATE Part", although I find it too easy to misunderstand for those who happen to have that kind of humour.
But I get very much more worried about the opposite ditch. Leaning too much on defined semantics, blaming the ignorant users for all syntax errors. Backwards compability should IMO also mean that software recognize parts and models made 5 or 10 years ago, without spitting out needless and annoying warnings and errors. They should accept and understand statements like:
0 Un-official Part
0 Un-official LDraw Primitive
0 Unofficial Shortcut
0 Unofficial Classic Space Model
0 Unofficial Moonbase Vehicle model
, regardless what standard may be set - or later on altered again.
Instead of "0 !PRIVATE" as a complement to "0 !LDRAW_ORG", I would suggest either "0 !LDRAW" or maybe "0 !INFO". But maybe there's an even better name?
> Something like "0 !PRIVATE Unofficial_Set", would
> allow us, in the future to start issuing LDraw.org
> versions of models, using "0 !LDRAW_ORG
> Unofficial_Set" during review and "0 !LDRAW_ORG
> Official_Set" upon release.
1. What motivates that unnatural underscore in Official_Set? In LDRAW_ORG, I can understand it, but not to separate normal words from each_other. That underscore is a heavily potential source of errors. It makes it (slightly) harder to write and much harder to remember to write as it's certainly not the normal way to write. And also, it's a little harder for the programmer to extract relevant information like is it a model, part, primitive, assembly or a shortcut.
2. Isn't a set still a model, or is there a difference I have overlooked?
(Hmm, let me see if I got it right about to start issuing LDraw.org versions of models. First, it's an LDraw.org unofficial official TLG set model that after after reviewing becomes an LDraw.org official official TLG set model. Right? Oh, where are my Aspirine pills...?)
/Tore
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> Most of those assembly Parts folder files, like
> the motorcycle+rider are anachronistic and
> probably would not be included if they were
> suggested today.
A great fortune they did make it there in time then!
> We did reject the inclusion of
> the minifig-scale destroyer droid, IIRC.
That's really bad. It would be very handy to have in the Parts folder where it belongs..
> Backward compatibilty, and all that, means we
> can't really delete them.
That is in deed very good news!
> I suppose they could be moved to
> Models, as "usage examples", like car.dat and
> pyramid.dat.
I suppose not!
> So, I'm not sure you should define any algorithm
> that allows models to exist in the Parts folder.
Shortcuts could techically be called "models", but from my POV they are much closer to be treated as parts than models, even though they really are neither.
> Personally, I'm very worried about the proposed
> fuzzy logic. It's that kind of vague header
> formatting that convinced us (well me at least) to
> formalise the Parts file header as you see it
> today. This means that the format can be
> programmatically checked - and other tools can
> rely on the defined semantics.
I think you worry too much.
Let's keep those two things separate:A. Shortcuts in the Parts folder are already formally defined
0 !LDRAW_ORG Shortcut UPDATE 2010-02 (30187c03.dat)
From the software's POV, it should be treated as a model.
But as an LDraw user, I DON'T want it on my own private workspace, ie the Models folder. No way!
B. I made the mistake to have no header at all in some of my boxed parts. This has been no problems with the software I've used so far, but Roland has made me aware that it may cause problems in some cases, like his new editor.
How do we address issue B? (Issue A is a non-issue IMO) The bad, really bad way would be a new, over-formalized Standard that you force us poor users to obey, or else we will encounter endless warnings and errors. Of course it will render all previously made models illegal, like DAT-Header now signals 'Hold' for all parts ending with the previouly compulsary "0" line. (Oh, stupidivity of stupidivities!) Now, where was I? I don't mind a new syntax, like "0 !PRIVATE Part", although I find it too easy to misunderstand for those who happen to have that kind of humour.
But I get very much more worried about the opposite ditch. Leaning too much on defined semantics, blaming the ignorant users for all syntax errors. Backwards compability should IMO also mean that software recognize parts and models made 5 or 10 years ago, without spitting out needless and annoying warnings and errors. They should accept and understand statements like:
0 Un-official Part
0 Un-official LDraw Primitive
0 Unofficial Shortcut
0 Unofficial Classic Space Model
0 Unofficial Moonbase Vehicle model
, regardless what standard may be set - or later on altered again.
Instead of "0 !PRIVATE" as a complement to "0 !LDRAW_ORG", I would suggest either "0 !LDRAW" or maybe "0 !INFO". But maybe there's an even better name?
> Something like "0 !PRIVATE Unofficial_Set", would
> allow us, in the future to start issuing LDraw.org
> versions of models, using "0 !LDRAW_ORG
> Unofficial_Set" during review and "0 !LDRAW_ORG
> Official_Set" upon release.
1. What motivates that unnatural underscore in Official_Set? In LDRAW_ORG, I can understand it, but not to separate normal words from each_other. That underscore is a heavily potential source of errors. It makes it (slightly) harder to write and much harder to remember to write as it's certainly not the normal way to write. And also, it's a little harder for the programmer to extract relevant information like is it a model, part, primitive, assembly or a shortcut.
2. Isn't a set still a model, or is there a difference I have overlooked?
(Hmm, let me see if I got it right about to start issuing LDraw.org versions of models. First, it's an LDraw.org unofficial official TLG set model that after after reviewing becomes an LDraw.org official official TLG set model. Right? Oh, where are my Aspirine pills...?)
/Tore