How to review "invisible" geometry

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How to review "invisible" geometry
#1
(2020-03-11, 14:32)Willy Tschager Wrote: The note for "ering" is still missing. You should also explain how to handle "invisible" geometry in an editor: working with "chrd" and after postioning, bfc, ... renaming to "ering". I'm sure you come up with some clever wording.

w.

I'm still puzzled when I come across "invisible" geometry:

https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.c...l2hole.dat

And there is still no guidance how to handle erings and 1-16chrds and make them "visible" for review. As a consequence I'm gonna hold the part. This is not going anywhere before the documentation issue is solved.

w.
LEGO ergo sum
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#4
(2022-04-05, 7:33)Willy Tschager Wrote: I'm still puzzled when I come across "invisible" geometry:

https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.c...l2hole.dat

And there is still no guidance how to handle erings and 1-16chrds and make them "visible" for review. As a consequence I'm gonna hold the part. This is not going anywhere before the documentation issue is solved.

w.

I've spun this out into its own thread.

What, exactly, do you want Willy?
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#6
(2022-04-05, 13:00)Orion Pobursky Wrote: What, exactly, do you want Willy?

I'd like to have a short tutorial added to the prim page explaining what steps have to be made to "see" an ering or 1-16chrd (don't know: substitute the code with other prims, edges, triangle, quad, cond) , that you might watch the effect in LDView. Something like that.

w.
LEGO ergo sum
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#7
(2022-04-05, 15:14)Willy Tschager Wrote: I'd like to have a short tutorial added to the prim page explaining what steps have to be made to "see" an ering or 1-16chrd (don't know: substitute the code with other prims, edges, triangle, quad, cond) , that you might watch the effect in LDView. Something like that.
"obvious" method: turn on high level primitive substitution. erings become visible...
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#14
(2022-04-05, 7:33)Willy Tschager Wrote: And there is still no guidance how to handle erings and 1-16chrds and make them "visible" for review. As a consequence I'm gonna hold the part. This is not going anywhere before the documentation issue is solved.

I don't know about other programs, but as others have stated, turning up the curve quality for LDView's primitive substitution will make them visible in LDView. Furthermore (since LDView 4.4) in the Model Tree dialog, you can search for them (for example, "ering"), and if you have it set to highlight, then when you select one, it will be highlighted in the 3D view.
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#16
(2022-04-05, 23:52)Travis Cobbs Wrote: I don't know about other programs, but as others have stated, turning up the curve quality for LDView's primitive substitution will make them visible in LDView. Furthermore (since LDView 4.4) in the Model Tree dialog, you can search for them (for example, "ering"), and if you have it set to highlight, then when you select one, it will be highlighted in the 3D view.

I would prefer something similar for LDPE but this is more than nothing. Could you please reword it and add it to:

"Note: The regular resolution 1-16chrd.dat..."

BTW. There is no trace of the "ering" in:

https://www.ldraw.org/library/primref/

And for the future I would expect that "invisible" geometry gets flag as such in parts.

w.
LEGO ergo sum
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#17
(2022-04-06, 19:17)Willy Tschager Wrote: BTW. There is no trace of the "ering" in:

https://www.ldraw.org/library/primref/

See previous Help Wanted for a prim ref update.
RE: How to review "invisible" geometry
#18
(2022-04-05, 23:52)Travis Cobbs Wrote: I don't know about other programs, but as others have stated, turning up the curve quality for LDView's primitive substitution will make them visible in LDView. Furthermore (since LDView 4.4) in the Model Tree dialog, you can search for them (for example, "ering"), and if you have it set to highlight, then when you select one, it will be highlighted in the 3D view.

Would someone please confirm that a 1-16chrd.dat doesn't get highlighted in LDView 4.4.1 (9 Feb 2022)'s model tree?

w.
LEGO ergo sum
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#2
(2022-04-05, 7:33)Willy Tschager Wrote: I'm still puzzled when I come across "invisible" geometry:

https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.c...l2hole.dat

And there is still no guidance how to handle erings and 1-16chrds and make them "visible" for review. As a consequence I'm gonna hold the part. This is not going anywhere before the documentation issue is solved.

w.

You can load file in the LDview, and enable primitive substitution with maximum curve quality, allows to see placement of erings
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#3
(2022-04-05, 11:03)Max Murtazin Wrote: You can load file in the LDview, and enable primitive substitution with maximum curve quality, allows to see placement of erings

I'm not after how things look in a viewer but how they are placed in an editor and what has to be done ti see them.

w.
LEGO ergo sum
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#5
(2022-04-05, 11:57)Willy Tschager Wrote: I'm not after how things look in a viewer but how they are placed in an editor and what has to be done ti see them.

w.

The underlying geometry is a conditional line behind an MLCAD HIDE meta. I was able to make it visible in LDPE by inlining empty.dat and un-hiding the condline. Not exactly workflow-friendly…

Perhaps the solution* lies here, from the comments of empty.dat:
Code:
`0 // It exceptionally contains forbidden non-LDRAW standard syntax to satisfy MLCad until it is fixed OR a different editor has become the de-facto LDRAW standard.`

According to this specification, it is time to stop using this condline, because a different editor has become the de-facto standard.

*Or more likely, a new version of the same problem…
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#8
Is there any other SW, besides LDView, that are able to show/"create" these invisible prims?
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#9
(2022-04-05, 15:51)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: Is there any other SW, besides LDView, that are able to show/"create" these invisible prims?

Studio…???
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#10
(2022-04-05, 15:51)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: Is there any other SW, besides LDView, that are able to show/"create" these invisible prims?

Lasse's buildinginstructions.js WebGL viewer (used by us and Rebrickable) and I would assume LDCad as well. I'm
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#11
How do I trigger Lasses viewer to show the imaginary surface created by this "empty" file?
I don't think it can.
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#12
(2022-04-05, 17:40)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: How do I trigger Lasses viewer to show the imaginary surface created by this "empty" file?
I don't think it can.

I misunderstood what you meant. I though you were asking what programs support them, not have a setting to explicitly allow you to view them. That said, you could change the color of them to, say, red and have them show up.
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#13
(2022-04-05, 17:48)Orion Pobursky Wrote: ... you could change the color of them to, say, red and have them show up.

I know how to view, and review them. As far as I know only LDView is able to "turn on" a calculated high resolution version of a design.
RE: 1-16chrd, an interesting idea...
#15
(2022-04-05, 18:06)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: I know how to view, and review them. As far as I know only LDView is able to "turn on" a calculated high resolution version of a design.

As it was mentioned before, Studio also uses primitive substitution for high-resolution models
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