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Patterns and color 16 - Printable Version

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Re: Patterns and color 16 - Steffen - 2012-03-11

no, this would mean 2 files per sticker always.

using simply color 16 for the backgrounds produces just 1.

and the user of that file can decide which color to use
(e.g. black, white, transparent or something else)

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Travis Cobbs - 2012-03-12

It may not be obvious, but what the LSC is voting on in the other thread is intended as a clarification of the current rules, not a change to the rules. That doesn't rule out the possibility of changing the rules to allow any sticker background color to be modeled as color 16. I'm not sure where I stand on that right now, to be honest.

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Don Heyse - 2012-03-12

I'm not sure what exactly you did vote on. Was it a clarification for the fire engine sticker where the flame color is transparent and meant to be stuck on a red brick?

Anyhow, since it's not ruled out, I think using color 16 for the transparent bits makes sense. Then if you want a "real" sticker for show in an inventory list (or in instructions before it's stuck onto a part) you can use a trans-white sticker part so you can see the whole thing. Then make it invisible by using the color of the part underneath when it's attached. The program (LPUB?) should be able to do this for you, as long as there's something in the name or the header to identify it as a sticker.

Of course this might mean you can't reproduce the real instructions where they cheat and replace transparent flames with red and leave the other transparent bits trans-white, but I'm ok with that.

Keep up the good work.

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Roland Melkert - 2012-03-12

I too was under the impression this is only a guideline decission because the part authors couldn't get too a agreement.

I voted yes because this way stickers are self contained, meaning you could place them on any part or assembly using a reference with some transparent color in order to blend the sticker with the whole without messing up a part of the pattern.

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Allen Smith - 2012-03-12

Steffen Wrote:I cannot see the benefit of hard-coding all colors.

In DAT code, the only reason I can see to have color 16 is on fully opaque stickers which come in multiple colors. I can't think of all that many (any?) examples offhand, but I don't pay close attention to my stickers either. (They often just go in a bin of mine to be forgotten forever.)

If DAT code is ever finally replaced by texture images—which would bring many, many advantages—every sticker/printed element color would be entirely hard-coded except for transparent bits. If one were to allow dynamic sticker colors, it would impossible to convert such parts into textures without some complicated texture META which I don't really think is worth inventing.


Re: Patterns and color 16 - Steffen - 2012-03-12

no, the usecase here to use color 16 is because different users want the main color differently.
some prefer white, some prefer "the predominant sticker color" etc. pp.

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Steffen - 2012-03-12

The voting there also forbids to use color 16 in non-transparent stickers.

But exactly that is what I'm asking for.

We should allow color 16 there.

Reason: currently there is no real consensus about what color the back and side sides of a stickers should get.

By any rule which forces "white" or "black" or anything else here, we will *always* disappoint someone.

Instead, by using color 16, we can make every fraction happy.

That's my reasoning behind that. I really would dislike if stickers would be hardcoded to a color I won't want,
as that would mean that I would have to modify those official parts.
This is not something I would want to do.

That's what basically the color 16 is for at parts,
and I see no reason to not use that mechanism for stickers as well.

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Allen Smith - 2012-03-12

Steffen Wrote:no, the usecase here to use color 16 is because different users want the main color differently.
some prefer white, some prefer "the predominant sticker color" etc. pp.

I'm confused. Can you explain what you mean by the "main color"? What parts of the sticker are you wanting to recolor?

Are you referring to a completely opaque sticker, or a sticker with transparency? (I understand the use of 16 for the transparent background.)


Re: Patterns and color 16 - Don Heyse - 2012-03-12

The wording voted on mentions the sticker pattern and printed colour. I'd interpret that as the top of the sticker. The wording doesn't really say anything to me about the sides or the back of the printed part. Does it?

Re: Patterns and color 16 - Steffen - 2012-03-12

I am referring to both transparent and opaque stickers.
I am referring to their rear and side color, which sometimes extends to the front.
For transparent stickers, color 16 is needed there and currently officially allowed / required.
Using color 16 for that allows the user to set that color to many things he/she likes. That can be:
the color of the part behind the sticker, or some transparent special material or color or whatever else.

My request is to allow that same color 16 use for non-transparent stickers as well.
There are some on the Parts Tracker where the parts authors can not find a common consensus
to use either e.g. white or black for that background. It is a question of personal taste.
Some people want to mimic the white plastic sticker material, and also want to see that at the sticker sides,
some people want the sticker to better blend with the background and choose a completely custom color,
and some people want to use yet another color, because it predominantly occurs at the sticker pattern
(e.g. especially at its border).
This non-consensus for me is a clear indicator that using color 16 there would make all people happy.
Everybody can use the color he/she wants. And we already are using the same technique for parts.
I don't really understand why extending that technique to stickers should be a problem.

I hope I made myself clearer now -