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New and updated Mursten-era parts - Printable Version

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New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-06

I am working on a number of parts from the very early years that are either missing from the library or in need of revision. A number of issues arise about renumbering, part naming, etc., so I've compiled everything here and placed bullets beside those points requiring attention or input.
1x8 brick
The earliest 1x8 bricks had two internal ribs; the existing 925.dat has three, a slightly newer design. I have submitted the 2-rib version as 925a.dat, along with a subfile for patterning.
  • I propose the existing 925.dat should be obsoleted and renumbered 925b.dat, and "with 3 internal ribs" should be added to its name.
  • Many of the existing patterns for 925 would have appeared with 925a, either instead of or along with 925b. Given the difficulty of documenting this with any precision, it is probably not worth the effort.
4x4 corner bricks
The two versions with one slot, u8009b.dat and u8009c.dat, are missing. I will build and submit these.
Macaroni bricks
The 4x4 half-round brick without cutouts was missing from the library. I have submitted it as 716a.dat, and the existing 716 has been obsoleted and renumbered 716b.dat.
  • This matches the numbering of the 2x2 quarter-round bricks 3063a (without) and 3063b (with).
  • But the names do not match: 716 has "cutouts" whereas 3063 has "stud notches". Should this be fixed?
With this part I took the opportunity to introduce the empty 1-48chrd.dat and 6 other new primitives, mostly rings. It required a surprisingly complete overhaul, including fixing an overlap of ring prims on the bottom surface.
  • I did not fix this overlap in 716b.dat, and there are a few other geometry issues besides. A potential project, for anyone seeking one.
Doors & windows
The ABB door is confirmed to be a single part with a two-sided design, rather than two different parts. That part has been submitted as u8040.dat, and the existing u8013.dat and u8014.dat have been obsoleted.
  • Possible "needs work": the raised features on this part should really be outlines rather than solid shapes. Perhaps in a future revision…
The "3rd gen" windows and doors (studless, no glass, HO scale) have all been revised and submitted with improved geometry of the tabs, as discussed here.

The 1x2x3 door came in both right- and left-handled varieties. I've submitted the missing right-handled version as u8012b.dat.
  • The existing u8012 should be renumbered u8012a.dat and "Left" should be added to its name.
Garage door and frame
The studless garage door frame with tabs for slotted bricks is not in the library. There are two variants, both to be submitted, with proposed numbering:
  • 821a.dat: with full tabs
  • 821b.dat: with partial tabs
  • The existing 821.dat should be renumbered 821c.dat and "with Studs" should be added to its name.
The correct door for this period is 822a.dat. However, with all the various counterweights in the library, none is the correct match. They should have pin holes and they are a different shape.
  • Should these be new suffixed variants (R and L) of u9187, or given a new base number?
  • These would be combined with the door into a new shortcut, 822ac02.dat.


RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Willy Tschager - 2021-06-06

(2021-06-06, 2:35)N. W. Perry Wrote: I am working on a number of parts from the very early years that are either missing from the library or in need of revision. A number of issues arise about renumbering, part naming, etc., so I've compiled everything here and placed bullets beside those points requiring attention or input.
1x8 brick
The earliest 1x8 bricks had two internal ribs; the existing 925.dat has three, a slightly newer design. I have submitted the 2-rib version as 925a.dat, along with a subfile for patterning.
  • I propose the existing 925.dat should be obsoleted and renumbered 925b.dat, and "with 3 internal ribs" should be added to its name.
  • Many of the existing patterns for 925 would have appeared with 925a, either instead of or along with 925b. Given the difficulty of documenting this with any precision, it is probably not worth the effort.

I do not understand why you added the ribs to the subfile? The 2 and 3 internal ribs should go to the main file otherwise you will need separated subfiles for a and b.

I'm fine with obsolate and renumber. Ping the admin.

w.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-06

(2021-06-06, 7:48)Willy Tschager Wrote: I do not understand why you added the ribs to the subfile? The 2 and 3 internal ribs should go to the main file otherwise you will need separated subfiles for a and b.

I simply matched the structure of 925.dat (as well as all "normal" bricks like 3008), where everything except the patternable face is a subfile. Should we move the ribs to the main file in both 925 and 925a? We would also have to move them in all of the patterned versions.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-06

(2021-06-06, 2:35)N. W. Perry Wrote: 4x4 corner bricks
The two versions with one slot, u8009b.dat and u8009c.dat, are missing. I will build and submit these.

These are now submitted:
u8009b.dat
u8009c.dat

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Magnus Forsberg - 2021-06-06

(2021-06-06, 12:50)N. W. Perry Wrote: I simply matched the structure of 925.dat (as well as all "normal" bricks like 3008), where everything except the patternable face is a subfile. Should we move the ribs to the main file in both 925 and 925a? We would also have to move them in all of the patterned versions.

No.
I don't understand Willy. I think it is correct to add the ribs in the subfile. They are different.
The main question here is the number on all the printed versions.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Magnus Forsberg - 2021-06-06

(2021-06-06, 2:35)N. W. Perry Wrote:
Garage door and frame
The studless garage door frame with tabs for slotted bricks is not in the library. There are two variants, both to be submitted, with proposed numbering:
  • 821a.dat: with full tabs
  • 821b.dat: with partial tabs
  • The existing 821.dat should be renumbered 821c.dat and "with Studs" should be added to its name.
The correct door for this period is 822a.dat. However, with all the various counterweights in the library, none is the correct match. They should have pin holes and they are a different shape.
  • Should these be new suffixed variants (R and L) of u9187, or given a new base number?
  • These would be combined with the door into a new shortcut, 822ac02.dat.

I reworked all the garage doors. Do you have any images of the missing versions?
821.dat is in need of some corrections, if it's reworked.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-07

(2021-06-06, 14:40)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: I reworked all the garage doors. Do you have any images of the missing versions?
821.dat is in need of some corrections, if it's reworked.

There are good photos of the garage parts here and here, and some more in a Facebook group I belong to. (In this post, if you happen to be a member.)

For the door itself, 822a is basically correct, but it appears the back side should be flat and the counterweights glued flush against it, instead of plugged into slots. Here's a Flickr image, but the Facebook group has some additional views. Also see Bricklink item 823cl (there's an item for sale at the moment with a good photo).

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-07

(2021-06-06, 14:37)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: No.
I don't understand Willy. I think it is correct to add the ribs in the subfile. They are different.
The main question here is the number on all the printed versions.

Meaning, if 925 becomes 925b, then all the patterned versions have to become 925bpxx? And the naming is already pretty inconsistent as far as whether and how the (absent) center studs are described.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Willy Tschager - 2021-06-07

(2021-06-06, 14:37)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: No.
I don't understand Willy. I think it is correct to add the ribs in the subfile. They are different.
The main question here is the number on all the printed versions.

I simply don't think it is worth renaming all the existing patterns. Just go on from here for the missing patterns and add the ribs accordingly.

BTW. https://www.ldraw.org/parts/official-part-lookup.html?folder=parts&partid=925p03 has 3 ribs.

w.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-07

(2021-06-07, 7:15)Willy Tschager Wrote: I simply don't think it is worth renaming all the existing patterns. Just go on from here for the missing patterns and add the ribs accordingly.

BTW. https://www.ldraw.org/parts/official-part-lookup.html?folder=parts&partid=925p03 has 3 ribs.

w.

I would agree. Probably all of the existing patterns for 925 are perfectly correct to appear on the 3-rib version. The 2-rib was first, but only by about a year, so the two would have been used simultaneously for a while. Only a very few rare patterns, if any, would have been found on only the 2-rib version. All others would have been seen on both the 2 and the 3, or for later patterns, on the 3-rib and the post-bottom versions.

I would like, however, to use the 2-rib subfile for the new patterns I'm doing—"købmand" and "slagter", and the serif "garage" that isn't done yet—since these are meant to represent the earliest available versions. Will those need to be (re)numbered as 925apxx, or can they keep 925pxx? Is there precedent for patterned parts continuing to use a plain base number after it has been split into a and b variants?

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-08

(2021-06-06, 2:35)N. W. Perry Wrote: Garage door and frame
The studless garage door frame with tabs for slotted bricks is not in the library. There are two variants, both to be submitted, with proposed numbering:
  • 821a.dat: with full tabs
  • 821b.dat: with partial tabs
  • The existing 821.dat should be renumbered 821c.dat and "with Studs" should be added to its name.

Well the first step seemed to be choosing an origin and orientation that makes more sense than 821.dat. The next was subfiling, as the two tabbed versions are nearly identical. (They were made from literally the same mold, with some modification either to the mold itself, or to the parts after molding.)

Here are working parts—but not quite finished yet, as the hinge pins are too low. (Won't know exactly why until I work on the door.)

.dat   821s01.dat (Size: 2.55 KB / Downloads: 0)

.dat   821a.dat (Size: 403 bytes / Downloads: 0)

.dat   821b.dat (Size: 676 bytes / Downloads: 0)

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-08

Thoughts on this as a new primitive?

This logo, commonly called the "dogbone" logo, should appear on the garage door (there's a placeholder for it in the file), and it already exists in u8030.dat. It also appeared on a number of early bricks, including on studs, but also on the underside (where we wouldn't typically model it).

Is this the right filename? Or should it be something like logoold.dat? Should it even be a primitive, or a subpart instead?

.dat   logo6.dat (Size: 69.23 KB / Downloads: 2)

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Magnus Forsberg - 2021-06-08

(2021-06-08, 14:53)N. W. Perry Wrote: Is this the right filename? Or should it be something like logoold.dat? Should it even be a primitive, or a subpart instead?

I made what is now logo5 as a subpart for 4481-4481.
If this now is logo6 it should have the same orientation as the other logo primitives.

(2021-06-08, 14:53)N. W. Perry Wrote: It also appeared on a number of early bricks, including on studs, but also on the underside (where we wouldn't typically model it).

Which one are you thinking of?
https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/107242-lego-stud-logos/

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - N. W. Perry - 2021-06-08

(2021-06-08, 16:25)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: I made what is now logo5 as a subpart for 4481-4481.
If this now is logo6 it should have the same orientation as the other logo primitives.


Which one are you thinking of?
https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/107242-lego-stud-logos/

It would be the "narrow open O" (Samsonite) variant. I guess that would need to be a different primitive, since it doesn't have the crossbar, in which case this one would probably make more sense as a subpart.

And as far as I know, the Samsonite stud is only a variant—that is, there's no part that exists exclusively with this logo on its studs. So unless someone decided to model Samsonite-specific versions of things, there might be no use for it in official parts.

RE: New and updated Mursten-era parts - Magnus Forsberg - 2021-08-02

(2021-06-06, 2:35)N. W. Perry Wrote:
  • I did not fix this overlap in 716b.dat, and there are a few other geometry issues besides. A potential project, for anyone seeking one.

I have used your design, and made a common subfile to be used in both parts. And fixed 716b.
https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/716b.dat