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+--- Thread: Advice getting started with parts authoring? (/thread-23729.html)
Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2019-10-29
So, I'd like to get a little more comfortable with parts authoring—or more accurately, perhaps, parts editing. I don't see myself soon contributing major new parts to the official library or anything, but I do often find I want to make minor tweaks to existing parts (such as to allow odd connections in Technic assemblies that depend on the physical tolerance of real plastic parts, or to create custom sticker parts, etc.). I think that with the right tools, I wouldn't have much trouble figuring out the process, but it's just a little too abstract to manipulate the raw code of a DAT file without getting visual feedback on what I'm doing. Are there good software programs out there where I could tinker around with the basics?
I should add one major catch—right now, LD Part Editor isn't an option for me. I've encountered a series of technical problems that have so far prevented me from even opening the program, so I have no way to use it. I've reached out for support already, but I realize that this may take some time because LDraw tools are created by volunteers on their free time, so I'm just looking for other options I might use in the meantime. I do also have Studio's Part Designer, but that really doesn't allow you to directly manipulate the various subparts, primitives and so on—unless I'm greatly missing where those capabilities are hidden. I don't think LDCad allows interactive part editing beyond snap info. Should I look into MLCad? Something else? I look forward to everyone's suggestions!
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Willy Tschager - 2019-10-29
I have written an article on part editing in MLCad:
http://www.holly-wood.it/ldraw/authoring-en.html
but you should really get LDPE working. As for patterns LDPC:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/patterncreator
/
Is your choise.
w.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Nils Schmidt - 2019-10-29
I will look into your troubles with LDPE and MacOS X on the next weekend.
From what I saw on GitHub it is most likely a somehow broken setup. I am sure that there is a solution for it.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2019-10-29
(2019-10-29, 8:38)Willy Tschager Wrote: I have written an article on part editing in MLCad:
http://www.holly-wood.it/ldraw/authoring-en.html
but you should really get LDPE working. As for patterns LDPC:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/patterncreator
/
Is your choise.
w.
I'm working through all of your tutorials, so this one will be on my list for sure. I just wondered whether it's worth trying to get MLCad working at all, since I'd have to make it work under Wine, and since it seems that LDCad is really the program of choice these days for general modeling. But the tutorials are helpful anyway because the concepts can be applied to any program.
(2019-10-29, 11:37)Nils Schmidt Wrote: I will look into your troubles with LDPE and MacOS X on the next weekend.
From what I saw on GitHub it is most likely a somehow broken setup. I am sure that there is a solution for it.
I'll appreciate your help, but I know you've got other real-life things to do, too!
I think there is likely something amiss in my system, but I'm not sure whether I'm having multiple issues with LDPE, or one issue with multiple symptoms. I think I solved the JAR access problem by running the update script before the run script, and the crash-on-startup is happening with the older version I installed because I couldn't get past the OK button on the current one. So I don't know whether that crash would also occur in the current version…I can say that being a Mac user, it's taken me a lot longer to realize the possibilities of what can be done with LDraw. Until I figured out Wine, the only programs I could really use were Bricksmith (not quite a full-featured editor) and Studio/Part Designer. While I'm very impressed by the easy-to-learn interactive GUI of Studio, I'm now finding myself limited by its lack of under-the-hood access: I can't directly manipulate code and see the results. For Part Designer, this really prevents any meaningful editing, because I can't work with the basic building blocks of a part (unless I'm missing where this functionality can be found).
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Magnus Forsberg - 2019-10-29
Before we had LDPE I did all my parts in LDDP and had LDView to see what I made.
In fact, I still use those two as my main tools when reviewing parts.
You can set up LDDP to open LDView, one single button
and also to pull to a selected line of code, the one you are editing, by using F11.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-20
(2019-10-29, 23:06)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: Before we had LDPE I did all my parts in LDDP and had LDView to see what I made.
In fact, I still use those two as my main tools when reviewing parts.
You can set up LDDP to open LDView, one single button
and also to pull to a selected line of code, the one you are editing, by using F11.
To follow on from my saga…
I'm thinking the above method might be a good workaround for now, since LDPE unfortunately continues to be just short of functional for me. I've got LDDP downloaded (the download link from the main page seems to be broken, but I found it another way) and I'll try it in conjunction with LDView and/or LDCad.
I wonder, is there still any value in trying to get MLCad working for the sake of having a WYSIWYG editor, or is it really just obsolete by now? (And if it is worthwhile, can I get the latest version other than by using the AIOI, which doesn't appear to run under Wine?)
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Orion Pobursky - 2020-04-20
(2020-04-20, 20:25)N. W. Perry Wrote: I've got LDDP downloaded (the download link from the main page seems to be broken, but I found it another way) and I'll try it in conjunction with LDView and/or LDCad.
There's the small caveat to this. If you use the 64 bit version of LDView, you have to rename it from LDView64.exe to simply LDView.exe in order for LDDP to recognize a valid path.
Since I can't update this behavior (I don't have the money to buy a valid version of Delphi nor do I intend to do so if I did), this workaround will have to do until I, finally, update the code to work with Lazarus/FreePascal (don't hold your breath for this to happen anytime soon).
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-20
(2020-04-20, 21:14)Orion Pobursky Wrote: There's the small caveat to this. If you use the 64 bit version of LDView, you have to rename it from LDView64.exe to simply LDView.exe in order for LDDP to recognize a valid path.
Is the file extension relevant? It's the Mac version, so it's LDView.app.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Orion Pobursky - 2020-04-20
(2020-04-20, 22:01)N. W. Perry Wrote: Is the file extension relevant? It's the Mac version, so it's LDView.app.
LDDP isn't compiled for MacOS so if you're running on WINE, I have no idea. It does, however, look specifically for whatever is listed in the parentheses on the Paths setting. If that specific file name isn't in the path, it won't work.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-20
(2020-04-20, 22:11)Orion Pobursky Wrote: LDDP isn't compiled for MacOS so if you're running on WINE, I have no idea. It does, however, look specifically for whatever is listed in the parentheses on the Paths setting. If that specific file name isn't in the path, it won't work.
Hmm…it definitely needs that extension. I can't change the name of the .app; I can add the extension to the executable itself, but LDDP can't see it. I also tried making an alias (shortcut) of the program named .exe; it can't seem to see that either (just doesn't appear in the search dialog).
One option, of course, would be to just install the Windows version of LDView to make everyone happy. This is almost better anyway, since programs that are compiled for Mac, unless they're truly built for the Mac, don't seem to play nice.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-21
(2020-04-20, 22:11)Orion Pobursky Wrote: LDDP isn't compiled for MacOS so if you're running on WINE, I have no idea. It does, however, look specifically for whatever is listed in the parentheses on the Paths setting. If that specific file name isn't in the path, it won't work.
OK, that's all sorted—now the problem is <Cannot create file " Z: \ Untitled.lddptmp ". Access denied.> Both on startup, and when invoking LDView from within the program. (But it didn't occur before I successfully set the path search for LDView.)
J.C. Tchang mentions this same error message, so I'm guessing it's a semi-known issue?
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Orion Pobursky - 2020-04-21
(2020-04-21, 1:38)N. W. Perry Wrote: OK, that's all sorted—now the problem is <Cannot create file " Z: \ Untitled.lddptmp ". Access denied.> Both on startup, and when invoking LDView from within the program. (But it didn't occur before I successfully set the path search for LDView.)
J.C. Tchang mentions this same error message, so I'm guessing it's a semi-known issue?
So this is how LDDP does polling. It creates a temp file: <filename>.lddptmp and updates that whenever the timer fires. LDView (and other progs), detect this change and reload the model. I’m sure there’s a better way but this was the easiest to implement using the knowledge I had at the time. Therefore, if there’s some issue with creating that temp file (e.g. no write permissions), polling will fail. This file should be created in the same folder as the original file so not sure what’s going on that it would try to create in Z:/. Prolly some quirk with WINE.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-21
(2020-04-21, 1:58)Orion Pobursky Wrote: So this is how LDDP does polling. It creates a temp file: <filename>.lddptmp and updates that whenever the timer fires. LDView (and other progs), detect this change and reload the model. I’m sure there’s a better way but this was the easiest to implement using the knowledge I had at the time. Therefore, if there’s some issue with creating that temp file (e.g. no write permissions), polling will fail. This file should be created in the same folder as the original file so not sure what’s going on that it would try to create in Z:/. Prolly some quirk with WINE.
I think so—best I can figure out is that the wine config is owned by a regular user, when it needs to be root. And from all that I've read, running Wine as root is a Very Bad Idea™, so I'm not sure I want to do that.
Z:/ makes sense because that's where all the apps are; it's just what Wine calls my real drive, as opposed to its fake C:/ drive. So that's the correct volume at least, if not the correct directory. So maybe if I put the program into the C:/ drive…?
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - Orion Pobursky - 2020-04-21
(2020-04-21, 2:41)N. W. Perry Wrote: I think so—best I can figure out is that the wine config is owned by a regular user, when it needs to be root. And from all that I've read, running Wine as root is a Very Bad Idea™, so I'm not sure I want to do that.
Z:/ makes sense because that's where all the apps are; it's just what Wine calls my real drive, as opposed to its fake C:/ drive. So that's the correct volume at least, if not the correct directory. So maybe if I put the program into the C:/ drive…?
It shouldn't be the program location that the temp file is created but the location of the file you are editing. It seem that something weird is going on. If I had my MacOS machine up aand running, I'd be able to troubleshoot for you.
RE: Advice getting started with parts authoring? - N. W. Perry - 2020-04-21
(2020-04-21, 2:57)Orion Pobursky Wrote: It shouldn't be the program location that the temp file is created but the location of the file you are editing. It seem that something weird is going on. If I had my MacOS machine up aand running, I'd be able to troubleshoot for you.
Ah, I see. That's OK, since the LDraw files are in that same location. And I was able to solve the error by setting permissions for myself as a user on my main drive. So that's fixed…now it's just a matter of:
And something tells me this is having to do with OpenGL support under Wine, so that's the next thing to look into! (That, or make a fake .exe file that actually opens the .app file of the Mac version.)
