Wikipedia - Printable Version

Wikipedia - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Wikipedia (/thread-23462.html)

Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-07

Anyone interested in offering a MOC for the Wikipedia page? The current one is too dark IMO, and I can't re-render it because the author did not link to the model file or POV-Ray source code.

Ideally, a nice radiosity render. It needs to have a compatible license, too, such as one of the Creative Commons licenses. Please also upload the actual model and POV-Ray source code somewhere people can access them (maybe github?) out of courtesy.

If no one has an alternate suggestion I will use a render of Datsville. It would show off the fact that you can create "BIG" models using LDraw, as opposed to LDD where you run into issues faster. But a radiosity render will take a lot of time. Maybe more time than I have. We'll see after I do some test renders.

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-07

(2019-06-07, 9:41)Michael Horvath Wrote: Anyone interested in offering a MOC for the Wikipedia page? The current one is too dark IMO, and I can't re-render it because the author did not link to the model file or POV-Ray source code.

Ideally, a nice radiosity render. It needs to have a compatible license, too, such as one of the Creative Commons licenses. Please also upload the actual model and POV-Ray source code somewhere people can access them (maybe github?) out of courtesy.

If no one has an alternate suggestion I will use a render of Datsville. It would show off the fact that you can create "BIG" models using LDraw, as opposed to LDD where you run into issues faster. But a radiosity render will take a lot of time. Maybe more time than I have. We'll see after I do some test renders.

How big should the model be?

RE: Wikipedia - Steffen - 2019-06-07

I suggest not to use something large like DATsville as example,
because that will visually not appear as appealing IMHO, because it will be strongly zoomed-out.
Instead, I suggest to choose some simple model which has a nice mix of colors,
and maybe has enough curved surfaces with primitives substitution,
so that the render shows the capabilities.
DATsville could be used as additional file/render, of course.
Just my opinion.

I agree with you that the current image shown on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDraw
is too dark and kind of an unlucky choice.

RE: Wikipedia - Lasse Deleuran - 2019-06-08

My suggestion would be to use the 'Car' model by James Jessiman as it was specifically created to demonstrate LDraw.

Otherwise, the Wiki page could use an update. I am not sure how relevant the collaboration with Peeron is, since their website seems to not have been updated since 2011. A lot of ongoing work (OMR, the parts tracker, AIO, tools, etc.) seems more relevant for the article if you asked me.

RE: Wikipedia - Steffen - 2019-06-08

nice idea.

the car.ldr which we deliver with every official release
would be an iconic model to render.

RE: Wikipedia - Travis Cobbs - 2019-06-09

(2019-06-08, 20:30)Steffen Wrote: nice idea.

the car.ldr which we deliver with every official release
would be an iconic model to render.

It's iconic from the point of view of the LDraw system of tools, but I think from the standpoint of the world at large, it is both disappointing to look at, and implies that LDraw is nowhere near as powerful as it really is.

RE: Wikipedia - Steffen - 2019-06-09

yes, after sleeping over this, I come to the same result.
the model is iconic,
but does not show the capabilities enough.
what criteria would a "good" demo image have?
- lots of parts?
- lots of colors?
- lots of curved surfaces?
- stickers?
- flexible elements?
- high-quality radiosity render?

I think we should also add
- screenshots from our major tools
- an LPub3D building instructions result

to demonstrate the full power

RE: Wikipedia - Philippe Hurbain - 2019-06-09

(2019-06-09, 10:18)Steffen Wrote: - an LPub3D building instructions result

The iconic LDraw car would be a good subject for that...

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-09

If we are looking for something big, I could possibly offer some of them.

https://rebrickable.com/users/technicbasics/mocs/

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-10

Sorry, the thread notifications ended up in my spam box.

Anyway, for a small scene I would recommend:

* radiosity
* SSLT
* blurred reflections
* MOCs only! Nothing from TLG.

POV-Ray can do all this but it is super slow. Is anyone here skilled with Blender? I have only a little experience with it, and none of it LDraw related.

Lastly, there are many high quality renders on Flickr, but I do not know how to filter *just* for Creative Commons or Public Domain images.

RE: Wikipedia - Damien Roux - 2019-06-10

(2019-06-10, 18:46)Michael Horvath Wrote: Sorry, the thread notifications ended up in my spam box.

Anyway, for a small scene I would recommend:

* radiosity
* SSLT
* MOCs only! Nothing from TLG.

POV-Ray can do all this but it is super slow. Is anyone here skilled with Blender? I have only a little experience with it, and none of it LDraw related.

Lastly, there are many high quality renders on Flickr, but I do not know how to filter *just* for Creative Commons or Public Domain images.

I can make nice render with PovRay if you provide me the model.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-10

(2019-06-10, 19:00)Damien Roux Wrote: I can make nice render with PovRay if you provide me the model.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of my models are worth showing on their own. Wink

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-14

I just made this render today. It is not an especially nice model, but I used SSLT, blurred reflections, high quality radiosity, etc. assuming I didn't by mistake misconfigure something. Download the original PNG version rather than the JPG.

ed. Oops I made a mistake. Am re-rendering now.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-16

(2019-06-14, 0:11)Michael Horvath Wrote: I just made this render today. It is not an especially nice model, but I used SSLT, blurred reflections, high quality radiosity, etc. assuming I didn't by mistake misconfigure something. Download the original PNG version rather than the JPG.

ed. Oops I made a mistake. Am re-rendering now.

First render:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/108839565@N04/48058321642/in/dateposted-public/

Second render:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/108839565@N04/48070953448/in/dateposted-public/

The second one includes some changes to materials suggested by Christoph Lipka.

RE: Wikipedia - Philippe Hurbain - 2019-06-16

I don't like the facetized look of slope wedges. Aren't they supposed to be smoothed somehow?

RE: Wikipedia - Steffen - 2019-06-16

Additionally I would suggest not to use an L3P POVRay export,
as that is quite outdated.

I would prefer
* LDView POVRay export + POVRay rendering, or
* ImportLDRaw import into Blender + Blender render
* or any other POVRay export of our nowadays tools, not the ancient L3P

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-17

Hi
Here two fast renders with povray from the car.ldr.
Resolution is only 1920x1080 for this test.
Light and floor has been changed a little bit for the standard export of LDView.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-17

(2019-06-16, 9:50)Steffen Wrote: Additionally I would suggest not to use an L3P POVRay export,
as that is quite outdated.

I would prefer
* LDView POVRay export + POVRay rendering, or
* ImportLDRaw import into Blender + Blender render
* or any other POVRay export of our nowadays tools, not the ancient L3P

Thanks, I will try that! I like L3P because it can be executed from the command line/batch file.

Too bad LDView is no longer being updated. I have several suggestions wrt the POV-Ray output.

RE: Wikipedia - Orion Pobursky - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-17, 6:49)Johann Eisner Wrote: Hi
Here two fast renders with povray from the car.ldr.
Resolution is only 1920x1080 for this test.
Light and floor has been changed a little bit for the standard export of LDView.

I'm not a fan of the reflecting floor. Otherwise looks good.

Why are we using POV when Studio looks just as good at a fraction of render the time

RE: Wikipedia - Travis Cobbs - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-17, 23:40)Michael Horvath Wrote: Thanks, I will try that! I like L3P because it can be executed from the command line/batch file.

Too bad LDView is no longer being updated. I have several suggestions wrt the POV-Ray output.

I added support for command line exports to LDView 4.3. (See LDView's Help.html#ExportFilename.)

Despite what I said before, it is likely that there will eventually be an LDView 4.4, but I have a texture-related bug that I'm pretty sure that I introduced that needs to be fixed first, and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

RE: Wikipedia - Philippe Hurbain - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-18, 0:05)Orion Pobursky Wrote: Why are we using POV when Studio looks just as good at a fraction of render the time

Interesting... for me Studio takes significantly longer than POV (but with a better quality). Maybe my machine needs a new graphics board?

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-18, 5:35)Philippe Hurbain Wrote: Interesting... for me Studio takes significantly longer than POV (but with a better quality). Maybe my machine needs a new graphics board?

OK
Here a render from Studio (Photoreal, very high)
[Image: 36040683xt.png]

RE: Wikipedia - Roland Melkert - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-18, 10:44)Johann Eisner Wrote: OK
Here a render from Studio (Photoreal, very high)

Which render engine is studiio using?

Is it still blender? As this image want me to revisit researching exporting to blender files again Smile

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-18, 19:38)Roland Melkert Wrote: Which render engine is studiio using?

Is it still blender? As this image want me to revisit researching exporting to blender files again

In Photoreal setting Studio use the eyesight renderer.

RE: Wikipedia - Steffen - 2019-06-18

here are the 2 currently available importers:
https://wiki.ldraw.org/wiki/Blender

RE: Wikipedia - Roland Melkert - 2019-06-18

(2019-06-18, 20:04)Steffen Wrote: here are the 2 currently available importers:
https://wiki.ldraw.org/wiki/Blender

I know about the model importers but while working on the POV-Ray animation export of LDCad I also considered exporting to blender files but its format isn't trival.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-19

(2019-06-18, 2:32)Travis Cobbs Wrote: I added support for command line exports to LDView 4.3. (See LDView's Help.html#ExportFilename.)

Despite what I said before, it is likely that there will eventually be an LDView 4.4, but I have a texture-related bug that I'm pretty sure that I introduced that needs to be fixed first, and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

Do you mind if I write up a list of suggestions? They should not be complicated to implement. Mostly they deal with defining and not overwriting variables.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-19

(2019-06-17, 6:49)Johann Eisner Wrote: Hi
Here two fast renders with povray from the car.ldr.
Resolution is only 1920x1080 for this test.
Light and floor has been changed a little bit for the standard export of LDView.

This model is very........... basic............. but okay if that's what you want.

But, is there maybe a licensing issue with that model? Who created it in the first place? Wikipedia will delete non-copyleft images unless there is a fair use rationale. I think it would be better if the model itself was released under a copyleft license, too.

RE: Wikipedia - Johann Eisner - 2019-06-19

(2019-06-19, 4:37)Michael Horvath Wrote: This model is very........... basic............. but okay if that's what you want.

But, is there maybe a licensing issue with that model? Who created it in the first place? Wikipedia will delete non-copyleft images unless there is a fair use rationale. I think it would be better if the model itself was released under a copyleft license, too.

This is the car.ldr from James Jesiman.
I used this file because of the disskusion above.
As already mentioned, if a larger model is preferred, I can gladly provide one of mine.

RE: Wikipedia - Travis Cobbs - 2019-06-19

(2019-06-19, 4:34)Michael Horvath Wrote: Do you mind if I write up a list of suggestions? They should not be complicated to implement. Mostly they deal with defining and not overwriting variables.

I certainly don't mind. I definitely pay attention to suggestions, but I also make no promises about them.

RE: Wikipedia - Damien Roux - 2019-06-19

Here is my contribution :

Rendered with PovRay from a Ldview export and 100% LGEO substitution.

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-20

(2019-06-17, 23:40)Michael Horvath Wrote: Thanks, I will try that! I like L3P because it can be executed from the command line/batch file.

Too bad LDView is no longer being updated. I have several suggestions wrt the POV-Ray output.

Here's a new render using LDView as a basis. The polygons are now smoothed.

ldv_nice_redrock_racer_new_12 by Michael Horvath, on Flickr

RE: Wikipedia - Michael Horvath - 2019-06-20

(2019-06-19, 19:50)Travis Cobbs Wrote: I certainly don't mind. I definitely pay attention to suggestions, but I also make no promises about them.

Awesome! I started a new thread here:

https://forums.ldraw.org/thread-23502.html