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Accuracy of Stickers - Printable Version

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Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-10-08

I currently working with LDPattern Creator, which is a wonderful tool, to do some stickers for the trains. At the moment mainly the missing logos of around 5 to 6 countries.

I examined the existing ones and I notices that the DB logo is very detailed (curves of the D and B) compared to the dutch logo, which is just corners whereas the real logo has a slight curve where the arrows bend.

For a try I did the old SNCF logo which is not that smooth as the DB logo but has more details than the dutch one.

Let me know what you thing.

Thansk

Gerald

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Philippe Hurbain - 2014-10-09

I think you got the right balance between smoothness and number of triangles. DB logos are definitely too fine (but they were generated with txt2dat whose resolution can be tricky to manage - and changes with tool version!). Dutch logo is ok but indeed misses a bit of curve...

Quote:LDPattern Creator, which is a wonderful tool
Yes indeed!

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Magnus Forsberg - 2014-10-09

To me it looks a bit too 'blocky'. There's no 'flow' in the lines around the 'S'.
Where can I find good reference pictures? Which set? What sticker sheet is it from?

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-10-10

I started working through these, but never got to the other logos. Here are images of the Belgian Railways and newer SNCF logos that I found. The bricklink scan for the 7720 sticker sheet 191815, was the best I found for the Finnish (VR), Swedish (SJ), Nowegian (NSB) and Danish (DSB) logos.

Please try to match the size of the logo subpart to the existing parts/s/191915s???.dat files (see here) and follow that naming convention:

191915s<ISOcountrycode>a.dat for logo foreground
191915s<ISOcountrycode>b.dat for logo background
191915s<ISOcountrycode>.dat for complete logo

Thanks for picking this up,

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-10-10

Thanks for your input!

Magnus Forsberg Wrote:Which set? What sticker sheet is it from?
This specific one is from 7720. All the 1981 trainsets have an extensive sticker-sheer with 12 railway companies.

Magnus Forsberg Wrote:Where can I find good reference pictures?
That is the 100.000 Dollar question. For some it is pretty easy, Italy, Belgium, the newer SNCF, however the Finnish and Norwegian ones are really hard to find in a proper resolution. Lots of browsing for railway history sites as the logos are not even from the 1980s but mostly dated to the 70s.

Chris Dee Wrote:Please try to match the size of the logo subpart to the existing parts/s/191915s???.dat files (see here) and follow that naming convention
I thought so as well and did ITA, BEL and FRA already along those naming conventions.

Chris, I wrote you a mail to get access to the Parts Tracker to share them, did you get it?

Thansk

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-10-10

Yes, I set you up and replied on 8th Oct.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-10-10

Please use 'fr' for France, 'be' for Belgium and 'it' for Italy.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-10-10

I finally got all the remaining countrie's train lines done. As mentioned, it was a big pain finding proper pictures to base the logos on. Norway was especially hard to find... and to do... :-)

Have a look:
[Image: stickers4.png]

I kept to the size and naming convention of the already existing ones, those are the basic files:

191895sfr..: France, Old SNCF
191915sfr..: France, New SNCF
191915sfi..: Finland (VR) - Sticker is wider 4/3 of a "normal" one
191915sit..: Italy (FS)
191915sbe..: Belgium (B)
191915sse..: Sweden (SJ)
191915sdk..: Danmark (DSB)
191915sno..: Norway (NSB) - Sticker is wider 4/3 of a "normal" one

For the 7720 Stickersheet 191895 I would continue:
191895g: FRA, old
191895h: FIN
191895i: ITA
191895j: BEL
191895k: SWE
191895l: DAN
191895m: NOR

And as a bonus some doors:
[Image: doorsnew1.png]

Gerald

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-10-11

Nice. Looking forward to seeing these on the Parts Tracker. Please ask if you are unsure about how to format the headers correctly.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Magnus Forsberg - 2014-10-11

Looking good indeed, but I want to comment the design anyhow. Again, it's hard to do it without a good reference.
I don't know if the 'S' has that shape IRL, or if this is a 'misprint'.
A picture is better in showing my main issues.

[Image: sncf.png]

My eye wants the yellow/orange lines to be paralell, and the 'S' to follow the red circles.

One of the best collections of scanned stickers I have found is this one from Rober-To.
Unfortunately there is no scan of these stickers.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Steffen - 2014-10-11

The "too high res" DB logos are my fault. I at that time just generated them with txt2dat.
Just FYI Smile
Thanks for your efforts, I am also eager to see these appear on the Parts Tracker.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-10-11

I looked up more pictures and it looks like my initial template was crooked.

Behind this link is a huge logo, not straight on but a lot of details, showing also the ends of the "S" which are striaght instead of rounded. I found another SVG of the old logo and overlayed your circles:
[Image: sncf_comparison.png]

I will use this one for the old SNCF logo, it has a smoother "s"

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-10-12

I would put the headers in the same way as they are in the existing logos, as an example the Belgian Logo:

0 ~Belgian Railways Logo Foreground
0 Name: s\191915sbea.dat
0 Author: Gerald Lasser []
0 !LICENSE Redistributable under CCAL version 2.0 : see CAreadme.txt
...

0 ~Belgian Railways Logo Background
0 Name: s\191915sbeb.dat
0 Author: Gerald Lasser []
0 !LICENSE Redistributable under CCAL version 2.0 : see CAreadme.txt
...

0 ~Belgian Railways Logo White
0 Name: s\191915sbe.dat
0 Author: Gerald Lasser []
0 !LICENSE Redistributable under CCAL version 2.0 : see CAreadme.txt
...

Gerald

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Max Martin Richter - 2014-10-12

You have to add your Nickname and the part type as well...
Code:
0 ~Belgian Railways Logo Foreground
0 Name: s\191915sbea.dat
0 Author: Gerald Lasser [GeraldLasser]
0 !LDRAW_ORG Unofficial_Subpart
0 !LICENSE Redistributable under CCAL version 2.0 : see CAreadme.txt

Please note, that the part type for a 'normal' part on PT is: "Unofficial_Part"

If you are not sure with whatever, feel free to ask. You should also try MikeHeide's DatHeader, that manages all the header stuff.

/Max

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Steffen - 2014-10-12

and do not forget the BFC statement
0 BFC CERTIFY CCW
or
0 BFC CERTIFY CW

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-11-19

I worked on the "Freight Crate with Globe" stickers and made the following subfiles:
- Globe with arrows in Color 16 (to choose between red and yellow arrows)
- Background in Col 16 with white oval
- Background in Col 16, rectagular

For the trains that would cover the corresponding sticker on the sheets 821421, 169675, 4279230 and 4586574
The pattern is used in some other non-train sets as well, but I do not have the overview at hand, respectively they are not on my priority list.

One question though: The globe is slightly different in all of those stickers, partially due to printing tolerances, etc., however I think it is not worth the effort to make individual files for them, rather re-use the "crate with globe" icon for all of them. What is your opinion?

[Image: 4555_blue3.png]

[Image: 10177_stickm1.png]

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Santeri Piippo - 2014-11-19

Looks good to me.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Max Martin Richter - 2014-11-19

As I can not spot any differences on bricklink's pictures, I'm OK with your solution.

/Max

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-11-20

Great work.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-12-27

During the quest for all the Train-Stickers to be done, i came across the Set 4512.

It has got the same pattern one as printed part and as a sticker.
[Image: 4512_trainlogo.jpg]

The problem is with the location of the printed pattern, it is located on the door:
[Image: 4181pb01.jpg]

... and there partly on the "fixed" part of the basic shape (4181), Yellow Area:
[Image: 4512_4181s011.png]

Now several options:
- Inline the basic shape (sans the yellow area) into the new patterned part: I do not want to add this part with a complete inline of the basic traindoor as it would not serve the purpose right if there is an improvement of the basic shape.
- Realize the top line with the four rivets as a "sticker": Not really true to the part but probably the easiest solution.
- Change the basic shape, i.e. remove the yellow part from the basic definition and add it to all other doors... That would also come close to an overkill, won't it?

What would be your suggested approach?

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Steffen - 2014-12-27

I would go for option ©.
Option (a) is also possible.
Option (b) is a mockup and would never pass certification.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Steffen - 2014-12-27

We do not model printing artefacts. We model the patterns as they were intended, and do not include
reality errors like misaligned colors, slightly misaligned prints, color bleeds, differences between different
printers etc.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Philippe Hurbain - 2014-12-27

Shape of part beeing very simple, solution (a) is very workable. You could also create a new subpart without less front surface for patterns that need it, and maybe update 4181s01 to use this new subpart.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Orion Pobursky - 2014-12-27

I think the best option is Philo's suggestion of making a new subpart just for this case and referencing it only for the parts that need it.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Steffen - 2014-12-27

maybe that new subfile should be a door without the full front face

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Orion Pobursky - 2014-12-27

Yes and then have the existing subfile reference that with the appropriate faces added back in. This is the minimal impact solution.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Gerald Lasser - 2014-12-27

Alright! Thanks for your input, I will do the new subfiles (left and right) and change the 4181s01/4182s01 doors.

Looking through the library a "4181s00" naming is not allowed, right? The next available would be "s03".

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Orion Pobursky - 2014-12-27

Yes. S03 would be appropriate.

Re: Accuracy of Stickers - Chris Dee - 2014-12-28

s00 would be acceptable, also.