LDraw.org Discussion Forums

Full Version: Minor changes to the Official Library Spec
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Sorry for a greenhorn question: does this solve the issue when transparent part with sticker looks as with no sticker when viewed from the back?
[attachment=6704]
(2021-07-24, 3:42)Willy Tschager Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. Could you please update the wording and also rework the requirement of a set number in the KEYWORDS for both stickers and sticker shortcuts?

w.

OK:

Clarification to Sticker Geometry:
Quote:For stickers printed on a transparent medium, the type 1, 3, and 4 lines that comprise the pattern shall be preceded by a 0 BFC NOCLIP statement. If there is non-pattern geometry after the pattern geometry, the pattern geometry shall be ended by a 0 BFC CLIP statement.

The sticker should be oriented such that the top of the pattern aligns with the +Z axis. Exceptions to this rule may be made on a case by case basis.

New Sticker !KEYWORDS Entry section immediately following the Sticker Description section:
Quote:All stickers and sticker shortcuts should, at a minimum, include at least one !KEYWORDS entry in the form of Set <set number> where <set number> is the number of an official LEGO set in which that sticker appears. Only one set need be listed, but more may be if desired.

To reiterate what I said elsewhere, I don't have a strong opinion about this. I did the call for votes because it seemed fine, and there appeared to be consensus before I did it. I don't really plan to argue the merits of the above changes, but I would greatly appreciate it if anyone has problems with them, that they speak up before another call for votes happens.
Look good to me.

w.
(2021-07-24, 18:16)Milan Vančura Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry for a greenhorn question: does this solve the issue when transparent part with sticker looks as with no sticker when viewed from the back?

Read: https://forums.ldraw.org/thread-22204.html

w.
(2021-07-24, 18:16)Milan Vančura Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry for a greenhorn question: does this solve the issue when transparent part with sticker looks as with no sticker when viewed from the back?

I would answer yes, and no, to your question.

The idea is to make the pattern on a transparent sticker visible from the back side, but all the parts in your image are printed, not stickered.
Please note that LDCad use the word "with sticker" in partbins, containing both "printed parts" and "parts with stickers".

Have a look at parts 60581d50 and 60581dm2.
[attachment=6712]

The sticker with a thermometer is made following the new suggestion. The print is visible, mirrored, from the back side.
The print on the Moria stickers are not made using a BFC NOCLIP and are not visible.
Should the Moria stickers be visible from behind? They are not intended to be placed on a transparent panel. The panel is grey in this set.


Printed pattern on a opaque part is not requred to use the NOCLIP.
Printed pattern on a transparent part should use the NOCLIP.

Should prints on a transparent sticker be forced to use the NOCLIP?

btw.
The 2 panels in your image with a porthole is not correctly made. These are prints on a transparent panel and should have been made using a BCF NOCLIP.
(2021-07-26, 7:59)Magnus Forsberg Wrote: [ -> ]Have a look at parts 60581d50 and 60581dm2.

Please note that LDCad renders the whole part dual sided when a noclip is present anywhere in the part's .dat tree.

And even then, it could not show the pattern from the backside as LDCad does no triangle level alpha sorting (only part level).
(2021-07-25, 0:56)Travis Cobbs Wrote: [ -> ]OK:

Clarification to Sticker Geometry:

New Sticker !KEYWORDS Entry section immediately following the Sticker Description section:

To reiterate what I said elsewhere, I don't have a strong opinion about this. I did the call for votes because it seemed fine, and there appeared to be consensus before I did it. I don't really plan to argue the merits of the above changes, but I would greatly appreciate it if anyone has problems with them, that they speak up before another call for votes happens.

That's better now. Thanks.
Thank you for your answers, Willy and esp. Magnus. I've read the linked thread as well ("heavy" for me...) and Magnus' detailed answer here helped me to understand the topic more.

I know (and knew) about the difference between stickers and printed parts, although I do not know technical details. From my (user's) point of view, both types should work and both types should work regardless the "original part" LEGO released with either the print or sticker:

Stickers can be applied to any part of any color (of course)
In digital virtual world even printed parts may be used in any color, why not?

And, watching from the other side of the problem, it may be confusing even if you do not plan to use any printed or stickered part in new color: simply because you want to find the part with no print/sticker among all those parts - and watching "from behind" they look all the same. What is surprising and confusing, if the color is transparent. Look at the image I posted as an example.

BTW, I made a test: I added BFC NOCLIP to the definition of a print on this panel and it works in LDCAD both in the part bin and in the main model view:
[attachment=6730]
(2021-07-28, 7:44)Chris Dee Wrote: [ -> ]That's better now. Thanks.

If all are on the same page I think it is safe to call for a vote.

w.
(2021-04-26, 20:50)Orion Pobursky Wrote: [ -> ]Clarification to Sticker Geometry:
- For stickers printed on a transparent medium, the type 1,3, or 4 lines that comprise the pattern shall be preceded by a 0 BFC NOCLIP statement and ended by a 0 BFC CLIP statement
- The pattern should be oriented such that the top of the pattern aligns with the +Z axis. Exceptions to this rule may be made on a case by case based.
Sorry to chime in late, but there is another point that could be clarified in BFC NOCLIP usage (for stickers or transparent parts): should color 16 (transparent section) of pattern be included in NOCLIP section or not? Case in point: https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.c...973p08.dat
I initially thought that these transparent areas belonged to the pattern so should be placed in NOCLIP section, but this would cause inconsistencies with parts only partially patternable where most geometry is in a BFCed subpart, including areas next to patternable areas. So I now think that transparent surfaces should NOT be in NOCLIP section.
Pages: 1 2 3 4