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Re: T-Junctions re-visited
March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Oh - I understand - it's an orthogonal purpose: to improve the quality of normal generation. (My "flat" statement was just meant as a cheap way to save CPU time by no-oping the smooth on a known flat piece.)

Two thoughts:
1. It may make sense to keep meta extensions that improve processing speed separate from meta extensions that improve normal quality; any time we add logic to make the normals look nicer, it may conflict with all other such extensions, so knowing every extension that can change the normal will be necessary for sanity.

2. If you simplify my scheme by not special-casing all-flat geometry, I've created basically "smooth-self" and "smooth-with-parent". It turns out that you can compute that cheaply and correctly on the fly for at least a few key primitives; when building the connected mesh, a mesh is smooth-self if it has zero edges that are 'open' (meaning connected to neither a line nor another triangle). stud.dat and all groups and rect.dat correctly parse as "sealed" - rect2.dat and rect3.dat parse as unsealed.

Parsing for complex parts like animals can give false "unsealed" results, but this doesn't matter- the key is to identify that heavily used primitives like studs are entirely self-sealed and don't need to be smoothed with their parents.

This means that not only can we create a faster t-junction fixer without meta commands, but the results of the seal test could be used to generate a candidate list of parts to get the META command should we choose to implement it.

3. we've had at least two other proposals for improving normal quality besides noting flat-but-shared normals: allowing the normal to come from a higher-level primitive (specified via a meta command) and allowing explicit normals for some polygons. This makes me think that normal quality, while important, might be orthogonal to the overall algorithmic problems (e.g. given no meta commands, can we come up with decent normals quickly).

cheers
ben
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted
T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs917March 11, 2013 10:38PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould484March 11, 2013 11:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert423March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik438March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert411March 12, 2013 11:22AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik394March 12, 2013 11:32AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert386March 12, 2013 11:41AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik396March 12, 2013 11:55AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert393March 13, 2013 10:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs416March 13, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith425March 12, 2013 02:01PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann410March 13, 2013 09:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik388March 13, 2013 10:37AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould397March 13, 2013 02:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann382March 13, 2013 03:42PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann408March 17, 2013 04:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik353March 17, 2013 08:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann353March 17, 2013 08:59AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik343March 17, 2013 09:02AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Magnus Forsberg362March 17, 2013 09:15AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs429March 17, 2013 10:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik399March 18, 2013 07:30AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs394March 18, 2013 10:57AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik402March 18, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs374March 18, 2013 12:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik445March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert456March 18, 2013 02:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs435March 18, 2013 02:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert497March 18, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik488March 18, 2013 06:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert425March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik442March 19, 2013 11:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert465March 19, 2013 07:07PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs441March 19, 2013 10:13PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould444March 20, 2013 03:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs407March 20, 2013 10:13AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik403March 20, 2013 10:23AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs434March 20, 2013 10:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs409March 20, 2013 10:26AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik388March 20, 2013 11:18AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik409March 20, 2013 06:42AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert386March 20, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Philippe Hurbain407March 20, 2013 06:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik449March 20, 2013 06:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith456March 20, 2013 09:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert521March 20, 2013 11:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik933March 20, 2013 11:50AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann471March 18, 2013 03:54PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert394March 13, 2013 10:03AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould361March 13, 2013 03:56PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano349March 13, 2013 03:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert434March 13, 2013 04:36PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould382March 13, 2013 05:10PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik429March 14, 2013 08:17PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould483March 14, 2013 08:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik448March 15, 2013 10:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert396March 15, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik348March 13, 2013 06:58PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert365March 13, 2013 07:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik347March 13, 2013 07:37PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert404March 13, 2013 07:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik407March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs470March 14, 2013 03:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert485March 14, 2013 03:34PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould470March 14, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert444March 15, 2013 11:33AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould381March 13, 2013 07:43PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert379March 13, 2013 08:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould403March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik475March 14, 2013 08:15PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert446March 15, 2013 11:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs425March 15, 2013 12:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik413March 15, 2013 05:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs435March 16, 2013 11:29PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik351March 17, 2013 08:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert339March 17, 2013 12:35PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs378March 18, 2013 12:28PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs477March 18, 2013 12:32PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert432March 18, 2013 05:00PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs457March 18, 2013 11:05PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert519March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano463March 26, 2013 02:46PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert381March 27, 2013 11:19AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano488March 27, 2013 01:48PM



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