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Re: T-Junctions re-visited
March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Oh - I understand - it's an orthogonal purpose: to improve the quality of normal generation. (My "flat" statement was just meant as a cheap way to save CPU time by no-oping the smooth on a known flat piece.)

Two thoughts:
1. It may make sense to keep meta extensions that improve processing speed separate from meta extensions that improve normal quality; any time we add logic to make the normals look nicer, it may conflict with all other such extensions, so knowing every extension that can change the normal will be necessary for sanity.

2. If you simplify my scheme by not special-casing all-flat geometry, I've created basically "smooth-self" and "smooth-with-parent". It turns out that you can compute that cheaply and correctly on the fly for at least a few key primitives; when building the connected mesh, a mesh is smooth-self if it has zero edges that are 'open' (meaning connected to neither a line nor another triangle). stud.dat and all groups and rect.dat correctly parse as "sealed" - rect2.dat and rect3.dat parse as unsealed.

Parsing for complex parts like animals can give false "unsealed" results, but this doesn't matter- the key is to identify that heavily used primitives like studs are entirely self-sealed and don't need to be smoothed with their parents.

This means that not only can we create a faster t-junction fixer without meta commands, but the results of the seal test could be used to generate a candidate list of parts to get the META command should we choose to implement it.

3. we've had at least two other proposals for improving normal quality besides noting flat-but-shared normals: allowing the normal to come from a higher-level primitive (specified via a meta command) and allowing explicit normals for some polygons. This makes me think that normal quality, while important, might be orthogonal to the overall algorithmic problems (e.g. given no meta commands, can we come up with decent normals quickly).

cheers
ben
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted
T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs301March 11, 2013 10:38PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould116March 11, 2013 11:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert91March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik89March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert88March 12, 2013 11:22AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik89March 12, 2013 11:32AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert92March 12, 2013 11:41AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik85March 12, 2013 11:55AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert87March 13, 2013 10:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs92March 13, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith103March 12, 2013 02:01PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann85March 13, 2013 09:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik90March 13, 2013 10:37AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould89March 13, 2013 02:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann79March 13, 2013 03:42PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann79March 17, 2013 04:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik67March 17, 2013 08:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann68March 17, 2013 08:59AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik63March 17, 2013 09:02AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Magnus Forsberg69March 17, 2013 09:15AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs77March 17, 2013 10:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik89March 18, 2013 07:30AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs89March 18, 2013 10:57AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik72March 18, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs78March 18, 2013 12:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik82March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert78March 18, 2013 02:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs79March 18, 2013 02:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert74March 18, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik78March 18, 2013 06:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert82March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik78March 19, 2013 11:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert85March 19, 2013 07:07PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs72March 19, 2013 10:13PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould83March 20, 2013 03:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs70March 20, 2013 10:13AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik63March 20, 2013 10:23AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs74March 20, 2013 10:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs65March 20, 2013 10:26AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik55March 20, 2013 11:18AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik67March 20, 2013 06:42AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert68March 20, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Philippe Hurbain67March 20, 2013 06:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik70March 20, 2013 06:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith62March 20, 2013 09:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert83March 20, 2013 11:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik105March 20, 2013 11:50AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann89March 18, 2013 03:54PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert93March 13, 2013 10:03AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould72March 13, 2013 03:56PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano72March 13, 2013 03:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert102March 13, 2013 04:36PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould85March 13, 2013 05:10PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik73March 14, 2013 08:17PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould133March 14, 2013 08:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik108March 15, 2013 10:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert95March 15, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik84March 13, 2013 06:58PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert80March 13, 2013 07:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik73March 13, 2013 07:37PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert89March 13, 2013 07:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik89March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs103March 14, 2013 03:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert109March 14, 2013 03:34PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould127March 14, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert89March 15, 2013 11:33AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould74March 13, 2013 07:43PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert82March 13, 2013 08:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould77March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik105March 14, 2013 08:15PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert105March 15, 2013 11:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs89March 15, 2013 12:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik94March 15, 2013 05:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs79March 16, 2013 11:29PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik67March 17, 2013 08:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert70March 17, 2013 12:35PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs76March 18, 2013 12:28PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs85March 18, 2013 12:32PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert76March 18, 2013 05:00PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs97March 18, 2013 11:05PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert92March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano90March 26, 2013 02:46PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert69March 27, 2013 11:19AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano84March 27, 2013 01:48PM



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