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Re: T-Junctions re-visited
March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Oh - I understand - it's an orthogonal purpose: to improve the quality of normal generation. (My "flat" statement was just meant as a cheap way to save CPU time by no-oping the smooth on a known flat piece.)

Two thoughts:
1. It may make sense to keep meta extensions that improve processing speed separate from meta extensions that improve normal quality; any time we add logic to make the normals look nicer, it may conflict with all other such extensions, so knowing every extension that can change the normal will be necessary for sanity.

2. If you simplify my scheme by not special-casing all-flat geometry, I've created basically "smooth-self" and "smooth-with-parent". It turns out that you can compute that cheaply and correctly on the fly for at least a few key primitives; when building the connected mesh, a mesh is smooth-self if it has zero edges that are 'open' (meaning connected to neither a line nor another triangle). stud.dat and all groups and rect.dat correctly parse as "sealed" - rect2.dat and rect3.dat parse as unsealed.

Parsing for complex parts like animals can give false "unsealed" results, but this doesn't matter- the key is to identify that heavily used primitives like studs are entirely self-sealed and don't need to be smoothed with their parents.

This means that not only can we create a faster t-junction fixer without meta commands, but the results of the seal test could be used to generate a candidate list of parts to get the META command should we choose to implement it.

3. we've had at least two other proposals for improving normal quality besides noting flat-but-shared normals: allowing the normal to come from a higher-level primitive (specified via a meta command) and allowing explicit normals for some polygons. This makes me think that normal quality, while important, might be orthogonal to the overall algorithmic problems (e.g. given no meta commands, can we come up with decent normals quickly).

cheers
ben
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted
T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs804March 11, 2013 10:38PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould406March 11, 2013 11:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert377March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik394March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert364March 12, 2013 11:22AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik352March 12, 2013 11:32AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert343March 12, 2013 11:41AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik352March 12, 2013 11:55AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert350March 13, 2013 10:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs372March 13, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith381March 12, 2013 02:01PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann369March 13, 2013 09:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik354March 13, 2013 10:37AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould354March 13, 2013 02:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann341March 13, 2013 03:42PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann375March 17, 2013 04:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik309March 17, 2013 08:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann311March 17, 2013 08:59AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik306March 17, 2013 09:02AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Magnus Forsberg328March 17, 2013 09:15AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs385March 17, 2013 10:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik349March 18, 2013 07:30AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs341March 18, 2013 10:57AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik354March 18, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs343March 18, 2013 12:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik378March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert396March 18, 2013 02:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs368March 18, 2013 02:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert435March 18, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik410March 18, 2013 06:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert360March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik384March 19, 2013 11:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert403March 19, 2013 07:07PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs375March 19, 2013 10:13PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould380March 20, 2013 03:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs347March 20, 2013 10:13AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik341March 20, 2013 10:23AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs371March 20, 2013 10:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs348March 20, 2013 10:26AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik331March 20, 2013 11:18AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik366March 20, 2013 06:42AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert329March 20, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Philippe Hurbain364March 20, 2013 06:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik408March 20, 2013 06:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith391March 20, 2013 09:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert430March 20, 2013 11:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik857March 20, 2013 11:50AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann404March 18, 2013 03:54PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert355March 13, 2013 10:03AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould320March 13, 2013 03:56PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano314March 13, 2013 03:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert390March 13, 2013 04:36PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould339March 13, 2013 05:10PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik371March 14, 2013 08:17PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould421March 14, 2013 08:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik410March 15, 2013 10:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert358March 15, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik310March 13, 2013 06:58PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert321March 13, 2013 07:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik315March 13, 2013 07:37PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert340March 13, 2013 07:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik342March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs407March 14, 2013 03:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert423March 14, 2013 03:34PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould405March 14, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert406March 15, 2013 11:33AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould353March 13, 2013 07:43PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert320March 13, 2013 08:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould344March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik409March 14, 2013 08:15PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert401March 15, 2013 11:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs382March 15, 2013 12:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik368March 15, 2013 05:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs390March 16, 2013 11:29PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik296March 17, 2013 08:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert296March 17, 2013 12:35PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs341March 18, 2013 12:28PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs416March 18, 2013 12:32PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert369March 18, 2013 05:00PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs400March 18, 2013 11:05PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert452March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano393March 26, 2013 02:46PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert336March 27, 2013 11:19AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano429March 27, 2013 01:48PM



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