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Re: T-Junctions re-visited
March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Oh - I understand - it's an orthogonal purpose: to improve the quality of normal generation. (My "flat" statement was just meant as a cheap way to save CPU time by no-oping the smooth on a known flat piece.)

Two thoughts:
1. It may make sense to keep meta extensions that improve processing speed separate from meta extensions that improve normal quality; any time we add logic to make the normals look nicer, it may conflict with all other such extensions, so knowing every extension that can change the normal will be necessary for sanity.

2. If you simplify my scheme by not special-casing all-flat geometry, I've created basically "smooth-self" and "smooth-with-parent". It turns out that you can compute that cheaply and correctly on the fly for at least a few key primitives; when building the connected mesh, a mesh is smooth-self if it has zero edges that are 'open' (meaning connected to neither a line nor another triangle). stud.dat and all groups and rect.dat correctly parse as "sealed" - rect2.dat and rect3.dat parse as unsealed.

Parsing for complex parts like animals can give false "unsealed" results, but this doesn't matter- the key is to identify that heavily used primitives like studs are entirely self-sealed and don't need to be smoothed with their parents.

This means that not only can we create a faster t-junction fixer without meta commands, but the results of the seal test could be used to generate a candidate list of parts to get the META command should we choose to implement it.

3. we've had at least two other proposals for improving normal quality besides noting flat-but-shared normals: allowing the normal to come from a higher-level primitive (specified via a meta command) and allowing explicit normals for some polygons. This makes me think that normal quality, while important, might be orthogonal to the overall algorithmic problems (e.g. given no meta commands, can we come up with decent normals quickly).

cheers
ben
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted
T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs601March 11, 2013 10:38PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould277March 11, 2013 11:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert251March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik264March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert246March 12, 2013 11:22AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik245March 12, 2013 11:32AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert240March 12, 2013 11:41AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik252March 12, 2013 11:55AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert246March 13, 2013 10:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs270March 13, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith292March 12, 2013 02:01PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann257March 13, 2013 09:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik255March 13, 2013 10:37AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould240March 13, 2013 02:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann239March 13, 2013 03:42PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann234March 17, 2013 04:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik214March 17, 2013 08:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann219March 17, 2013 08:59AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik222March 17, 2013 09:02AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Magnus Forsberg219March 17, 2013 09:15AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs275March 17, 2013 10:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik245March 18, 2013 07:30AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs253March 18, 2013 10:57AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik256March 18, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs247March 18, 2013 12:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik259March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert269March 18, 2013 02:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs246March 18, 2013 02:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert267March 18, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik254March 18, 2013 06:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert258March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik276March 19, 2013 11:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert294March 19, 2013 07:07PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs265March 19, 2013 10:13PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould252March 20, 2013 03:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs239March 20, 2013 10:13AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik231March 20, 2013 10:23AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs245March 20, 2013 10:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs244March 20, 2013 10:26AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik221March 20, 2013 11:18AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik242March 20, 2013 06:42AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert241March 20, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Philippe Hurbain248March 20, 2013 06:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik244March 20, 2013 06:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith253March 20, 2013 09:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert264March 20, 2013 11:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik643March 20, 2013 11:50AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann264March 18, 2013 03:54PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert241March 13, 2013 10:03AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould219March 13, 2013 03:56PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano226March 13, 2013 03:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert289March 13, 2013 04:36PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould253March 13, 2013 05:10PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik232March 14, 2013 08:17PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould292March 14, 2013 08:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik288March 15, 2013 10:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert241March 15, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik222March 13, 2013 06:58PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert230March 13, 2013 07:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik212March 13, 2013 07:37PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert226March 13, 2013 07:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik255March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs272March 14, 2013 03:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert280March 14, 2013 03:34PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould298March 14, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert262March 15, 2013 11:33AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould219March 13, 2013 07:43PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert227March 13, 2013 08:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould232March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik294March 14, 2013 08:15PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert283March 15, 2013 11:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs254March 15, 2013 12:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik268March 15, 2013 05:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs253March 16, 2013 11:29PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik210March 17, 2013 08:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert220March 17, 2013 12:35PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs241March 18, 2013 12:28PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs265March 18, 2013 12:32PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert259March 18, 2013 05:00PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs287March 18, 2013 11:05PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert308March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano293March 26, 2013 02:46PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert239March 27, 2013 11:19AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano293March 27, 2013 01:48PM



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