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Re: T-Junctions re-visited
March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Oh - I understand - it's an orthogonal purpose: to improve the quality of normal generation. (My "flat" statement was just meant as a cheap way to save CPU time by no-oping the smooth on a known flat piece.)

Two thoughts:
1. It may make sense to keep meta extensions that improve processing speed separate from meta extensions that improve normal quality; any time we add logic to make the normals look nicer, it may conflict with all other such extensions, so knowing every extension that can change the normal will be necessary for sanity.

2. If you simplify my scheme by not special-casing all-flat geometry, I've created basically "smooth-self" and "smooth-with-parent". It turns out that you can compute that cheaply and correctly on the fly for at least a few key primitives; when building the connected mesh, a mesh is smooth-self if it has zero edges that are 'open' (meaning connected to neither a line nor another triangle). stud.dat and all groups and rect.dat correctly parse as "sealed" - rect2.dat and rect3.dat parse as unsealed.

Parsing for complex parts like animals can give false "unsealed" results, but this doesn't matter- the key is to identify that heavily used primitives like studs are entirely self-sealed and don't need to be smoothed with their parents.

This means that not only can we create a faster t-junction fixer without meta commands, but the results of the seal test could be used to generate a candidate list of parts to get the META command should we choose to implement it.

3. we've had at least two other proposals for improving normal quality besides noting flat-but-shared normals: allowing the normal to come from a higher-level primitive (specified via a meta command) and allowing explicit normals for some polygons. This makes me think that normal quality, while important, might be orthogonal to the overall algorithmic problems (e.g. given no meta commands, can we come up with decent normals quickly).

cheers
ben
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted
T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs774March 11, 2013 10:38PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould383March 11, 2013 11:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert361March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik382March 12, 2013 11:17AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert354March 12, 2013 11:22AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik337March 12, 2013 11:32AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert332March 12, 2013 11:41AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik340March 12, 2013 11:55AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert335March 13, 2013 10:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs362March 13, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith368March 12, 2013 02:01PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann356March 13, 2013 09:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik338March 13, 2013 10:37AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould341March 13, 2013 02:31PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann325March 13, 2013 03:42PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann363March 17, 2013 04:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik299March 17, 2013 08:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann296March 17, 2013 08:59AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik292March 17, 2013 09:02AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Magnus Forsberg317March 17, 2013 09:15AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs369March 17, 2013 10:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik336March 18, 2013 07:30AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs330March 18, 2013 10:57AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik337March 18, 2013 11:27AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs327March 18, 2013 12:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik356March 18, 2013 01:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert374March 18, 2013 02:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs351March 18, 2013 02:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert419March 18, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik392March 18, 2013 06:09PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert347March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik366March 19, 2013 11:43AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert388March 19, 2013 07:07PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs356March 19, 2013 10:13PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould356March 20, 2013 03:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs332March 20, 2013 10:13AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik320March 20, 2013 10:23AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs354March 20, 2013 10:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs330March 20, 2013 10:26AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik314March 20, 2013 11:18AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik351March 20, 2013 06:42AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert313March 20, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Philippe Hurbain348March 20, 2013 06:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik397March 20, 2013 06:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Allen Smith372March 20, 2013 09:08AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert404March 20, 2013 11:35AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik820March 20, 2013 11:50AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Michael Heidemann389March 18, 2013 03:54PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert342March 13, 2013 10:03AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould308March 13, 2013 03:56PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano300March 13, 2013 03:51PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert378March 13, 2013 04:36PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould329March 13, 2013 05:10PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik354March 14, 2013 08:17PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould399March 14, 2013 08:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik397March 15, 2013 10:56AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert342March 15, 2013 11:36AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik295March 13, 2013 06:58PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert307March 13, 2013 07:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik300March 13, 2013 07:37PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert327March 13, 2013 07:59PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik328March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs395March 14, 2013 03:23PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert407March 14, 2013 03:34PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould385March 14, 2013 03:41PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert386March 15, 2013 11:33AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould340March 13, 2013 07:43PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert309March 13, 2013 08:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Tim Gould327March 13, 2013 08:18PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik393March 14, 2013 08:15PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert389March 15, 2013 11:29AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs370March 15, 2013 12:27PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik355March 15, 2013 05:08PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs373March 16, 2013 11:29PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Ben Supnik285March 17, 2013 08:58AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert286March 17, 2013 12:35PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs328March 18, 2013 12:28PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs396March 18, 2013 12:32PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert355March 18, 2013 05:00PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Travis Cobbs378March 18, 2013 11:05PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert430March 19, 2013 11:38AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano375March 26, 2013 02:46PM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Roland Melkert325March 27, 2013 11:19AM
Re: T-Junctions re-visited Sergio Reano416March 27, 2013 01:48PM



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